Looks to me like is a key play.

I would simply take L9 instead. If Black jumps out with the lower group, and White extends along the lower side, the game is going well for White. As it is, White becomes both thin and heavy.

Hi Kirby, you're near Sesttle. For some reason I thought you were in Korea or on the east coast.

I was traveling with just my iPad which makes comments and diagrams difficult. So here are couple of late points on the game in post #295.


With this kind of large-knight extension at the top, the weak spot in White's position is Black 1 above. Here it is helped by the Black stone to the left. Whether Black plays it immediately or not, this should be in Black's mind. In the game after Black exchanges 37 for 38, the follow up should definitely be the invasion IMHO.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bc Black's follow up
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . X . . . 1 . O . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . O , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Finish the joseki!

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bc Position at move 45
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . O X O 1 . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . X . . . . O O X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . O . . X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Attack!!! This is the only possible use for your new thickness. The only alternative worthy of consideration is the atari at 'a' prior to the play in the corner. However, White will probably tenuki and play at 1. Black would get a second ponuki in sente in the center but the only natural target would be gone. Once Black takes White's eyes below, Black should be able to solidify both the right and the bottom while White hunts for eyes.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bc Position at move 71
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . O X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . X . . . O O O X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . O O X X X X . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . O X . . O O . . . X . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . X . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O . O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . O . X O X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . O X . X . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . a . X . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Your cut is better than your alternative. It was your follow up that was suspect. Black 7 below is one continuation. We might call it the 'normal' way to play after 5. However, Black then does not even try to fight the ko. If Black wants to connect at 9 and 'a' as in the game, it is probably best to just play 7 at 9. That threatens a real ko so White answers in the corner anyway. Locally however...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bc Game continuation
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . 3 8 7 0 . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . O X O O 1 6 . . . |
$$ | . . X O . X . . . O O O X X O 2 5 . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . O O X X X X 9 X X . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . O X a O O O O O X X X . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . X O X . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . O O X O O X . . X . |
$$ | . X O O X O . O O . O X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X X . . . . O X . X . . X X . . |
$$ | . O X , . . . . O X . X . . . , . . . |
$$ | . X O X X . . . O X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . O X X X O O . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . O O . O O . . . . . . X . . O X . . |
$$ | O X O . . O X X . . . . . . . O X X . |
$$ | . X O . O . . . . . . X . O O . O O X |
$$ | . X . O . O O O X X . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | X . X O O X X X X X . X X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X X O X . . O O O O X O . O X O X |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . O . . . . O . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

The right way to make use of the marked stone is to atari with 1 and then tenuki (in this case 3). White can not hane at 4 due to shortage of liberties. Black can answer at 5. Cutting does not work as clearly shown below. White can not even connect 4. Black need not play 7 immediately if there are sufficient ko threats. In your alternative above White can still jump into the corner. This is clearly better.

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[go]$$Bc The right continuation in the corner
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . B 2 . 4 5 8 |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . O X O O X O 1 6 . |
$$ | . . X O . X . . . O O O X X O O X 7 9 |
$$ | . . X O . . . O O X X X X 3 X X . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . O X . O O O O O X X X . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . X O X . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . O O X O O X . . X . |
$$ | . X O O X O . O O . O X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X X . . . . O X . X . . X X . . |
$$ | . O X , . . . . O X . X . . . , . . . |
$$ | . X O X X . . . O X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . O X X X O O . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . O O . O O . . . . . . X . . O X . . |
$$ | O X O . . O X X . . . . . . . O X X . |
$$ | . X O . O . . . . . . X . O O . O O X |
$$ | . X . O . O O O X X . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | X . X O O X X X X X . X X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X X O X . . O O O O X O . O X O X |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . O . . . . O . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

_________________
Dave Sigaty
"Short-lived are both the praiser and the praised, and rememberer and the remembered..."
- Marcus Aurelius; Meditations, VIII 21

Thanks, Charles and ez4u, for the comments. I particularly like your idea, ez4u, to attack the bottom right group.

You will have to excuse me for my absence - my work environment has changed, so it is difficult to play games at lunchtime...

It's a bit of a dilemma, which I haven't solved, yet...

_________________
be immersed

Yes, I live near Seattle. I have lived in Korea (for a short bit) in the past, and also in Michigan (and also in Japan and California) so maybe that's what threw you off. Michigan isn't exactly east coast, but closer than where you're at, I believe.

If you are ever in the area, ping me and we can see what we can do about meeting up!

_________________
be immersed

I've come up with a tentative solution to my dilemma. I will simply play when I can, whether or not I can do it every day at lunchtime. I prefer having a regularly scheduled habit, but I guess I have to live with the circumstances I'm in right now.

With this in mind, I had some spare time last night. My kids were in bed, and my wife was teaching, so it was the perfect opportunity to play a game.

Well, at least with my schedule. I've been a bit sick - I don't know what the problem is. I've had a shallow cough that's lasted for about 3 weeks now. Nothing that serious, I guess, but it's just been dragging on and on. During the middle of this game, I had to step away, because I couldn't stop coughing. Maybe I should see the doctor soon.

Anyway, I can tell that I'm a bit out of shape, both physically, and on the go board. This game, I basically lost by 7.5 points, but my opponent decided to let me win at the end.




To summarize my review, I felt comfortable until the early middle game, but then I think he gained too much when I was sealed in in the top right. I focused on capturing three stones, but they were small compared to the big picture. I deserved to lose this game.

_________________
be immersed

Key Points

Position 1

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[go]$$ Position at move 11
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . B . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I think the marked move is too close. I should probably simply split:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$ Position at move 11
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . B . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Position 2

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[go]$$ Position at move 55
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X X O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . a . X O O X . . . X X . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , O . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . B . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . X O O O O . . O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . X X O X X O . . . X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

The marked move must be wrong. It's simply too painful when white plays 'a'. Maybe I should simply make a base:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$ Position at move 55
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X X O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . B . . X O O X . . . X X . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , O . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . X O O O O . . O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . X X O X X O . . . X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I like to put pressure on his group, but moving out just seems to help him:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$ Position at move 55
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X X O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . X O O X . . . X X . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . 1 O . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . 2 . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . X O O O O . . O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . X X O X X O . . . X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

So I guess I like this way best:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$ Position at move 55
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X X O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . B . . X O O X . . . X X . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , O . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . X O O O O . . O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . X X O X X O . . . X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Position 3

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[go]$$ Position at move 65
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . B . X X O X O O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . O X X O O X X . X X X . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , O . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . X . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . O . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . X O O O O . . O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . X X O X X O . . . X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

The marked move helps my weak-ish group, but in retrospect, I think it is way too slow. I think it's more important to keep white split. When white sealed me in, as in the game, even though I got the 3 stones, he gained way too much. I think I need to keep him split:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$ Position at move 65
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X X O X O O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . O X X O O X X . X X X . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , O . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . X . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . O . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . B . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . X O O O O . . O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . X X O X X O . . . X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Him sealing me in was just waaaay to good for him.

Position 4

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$ Position at move 91
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . X X O X O O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . O X X O O X X . X X X . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , O . . . X X O . X |
$$ | . . X O . . . . X . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . O . X X O O X X |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O X X X X |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . O X O X O X X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O O O . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . B . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . X O O O O . . O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . X X O X X O . . . X . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

After he sealed me in in sente, it was just too good for him. I feel the marked move above is questionable. Is it really the biggest area on the board? But I'm not sure where to play instead. I think this is the price I have to pay for playing so slack as described in Position 3.

Position 5

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[go]$$ Position at move 117
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . X X O X O O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . O X X O O X X . X X X . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , O . . . X X O . X |
$$ | . . X O . . . . X . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . O . X X O O X X |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O X X X X |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . O X O X O X X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O O O . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X X O B . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . X X . X O O . O X . . |
$$ | . X O O O O . O O O X . X . . O . . . |
$$ | . X X O X X O . . . X . O O O X X . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I misread the marked move, so I obviously paid for it.


These are the points that stick out to me. I lost some more points later in the game, but I was already under time pressure since I was trying to come back from these mistakes.

I think the biggest mistake was the one at Position 3. The move was slow, and I got sealed in way too easily. It made the game easier for him.

_________________
be immersed

General comment needed, I think. You have what I would call a "busy" style. It is not serving you well in some of these games you are posting.

For example, by in this game you have taken the four corners: and now you invade. Your position goes downhill quickly. You are looking at later improvements, but I think this play should be on the second line (slide) or on the fourth. It seems to me that to become stronger, you need to ask some questions about your perception.

Very interesting comment, Charles. Thank you for posting. I never considered the slide that you mention, and it seems much simpler - and I increase territory in the corner, too.

I am trying to understand what you mean by "busy style" and "perception". Since you used my invasion as an example, perhaps this equates to being greedy. Or maybe an inability to assess what is reasonable?

It is true that I often feel "busy", in that there are several areas of the board that I want to get before my opponent. But my feeling was that this was common to all go players. Perhaps not?

_________________
be immersed

Put it this way: you made a comment on in this game. I actually think you should play this in the top left corner: my perception is that the top left is the biggest area of the board. Instead you approach the one area of the board where you are clearly outnumbered. Why did you expect a good result there? This is the only place where White is strong.

Of the three areas for on the left side, namely (a) top left, (b) middle of side, (c) lower left, it seems you only considered (b) and (c). Of course if you play (a) there may be a complex variation. But in terms of "getting there before the opponent", preventing an enclosure is urgent. Option (b) prevents White making the whole of the left side into a framework: but really that needs two plays. Option (c) prevents White expanding the lower left corner.

Here (c) really is "greedy": it seems you don't want White to have any territory. If White extended from the lower left it would be over-concentrated.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$ Position at move 45
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . X . . . X X . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . 1 , O . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . X O . 3 . . . . . 2 . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . X O O O O . . O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . X X O X X O . . . X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

For the top side, this would be my first thought, actually. You have a reasonable fighting position. though White can play at C7 in sente. I'm not saying "play passively".

I concur with Charles about . It is usually not so good to play where you are outnumbered, especially early in the game. After Black has one stone less than White in the vicinity, two stones less if we do not count the stone on L-03. How can you expect a good result? Making the more distant approach simply lessens the damage.

_________________
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.

Thanks, guys. I definitely agree that was bad, and I felt that way immediately after he pincered. What I didn't know was that the splitting alternative I thought about during review was also bad.

I guess that I should keep my distance in this type of situation. Maybe it's partially greediness, and also partially that I am afraid when my opponent makes a framework.

Since he got a bit of a "wall", I was afraid of him putting it to use. But like Charles mentioned, white can't really "complete" the area in one move. So maybe this is my misunderstanding...

_________________
be immersed

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$ Position at move 11
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 5 O . . . . . 8 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 , 6 . 4 . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . c . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . a , . . . . . , . . . . . 9 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . b . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

So on the matter of perception, how this continuation look for Black? The upper left is joseki, and I think a very reasonable way for White to play this position.

If now White at a, Black at b.

I say Black is good here. It is a framework game, but Black's framework seems well organised. Recalling that Black starts, it should be good for Black to compete by building. White at c instead of a is an idea that is interesting in a large-scale game, but here it doesn't really seem in focus. Maybe White should play directly at b.

Anywy, Black gets a decent position calmly.

It seems reasonable. I feel that, during the game, I am afraid of white's potential on the left. Even if black gets to play 'b', I don't really see black's position when I am playing black. I see what white has, and I want to take it away.

If I were playing as white, though, I would feel the opposite. I would be afraid of black's potential, and wouldn't be able to see what I could make on the left

_________________
be immersed

I had some time to play another game yesterday. I can tell that I am getting weaker. I left bad aji behind, because I made a silly reading mistake. I should have just defended solidly.

Here's the game, along with my review.



Perhaps I am getting weaker because I am not playing as often as I was before. I need to play more often, I think.

_________________
be immersed

Some mistakes.

Position 1

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[go]$$W Position at move 13
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I played this move without much hesitation, expecting to get the corner in sente. I've seen it in pro games. But, after this...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$W Variation 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 3 . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . 9 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 7 X 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 0 5 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

It was too naive to think that black *must* play at . Like I showed in the variation, black gets loss if he doesn't play there, but I should have considered tenuki. White's group becomes a little weak after 'a' in Variation 1, above, so I should have anticipated this.

Perhaps simply answering is best, and then I can come up with a more detailed plan for the left later.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$ Position at move 13
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . W . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Just keep it simple.

Position 2

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[go]$$ Position at move 86
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X X O O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X . X O O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | X X X O X O . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | X O X X X O . . . . . . . . . . W . . |
$$ | O . O O O X O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | O O O X X X . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | O . O X . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O X , X . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | O X . X . X . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | X . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

The marked move leaves less forcing for now, but it's bad aji for later. It bit me later in the game. I should have just played properly, like in the variation.

Position 3

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[go]$$ Position at move 110
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X X O O X O . . . . . . X W . . . . . |
$$ | X . X O O O X . . , . . X O . , . . . |
$$ | X X X O X O X . X X X X O . . . O . . |
$$ | X O X X X O X . O O O . O . . . O . . |
$$ | O . O O O X O O . . . . O X . X . . . |
$$ | O O O X X X . . X . O . O . . X O . . |
$$ | O . O X . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O X , X . . . . , . . X . X , . . . |
$$ | O X . X . X . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | X . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I think I am leading this game. So I can afford to play simply and solidly. It's black's job to press to catch up. I should simply play here, and I think I can win:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$ Position at move 110
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X X O O X O . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | X . X O O O X . . , . . X O . , . . . |
$$ | X X X O X O X . X X X X O . W . O . . |
$$ | X O X X X O X . O O O . O . . . O . . |
$$ | O . O O O X O O . . . . O X . X . . . |
$$ | O O O X X X . . X . O . O . . X O . . |
$$ | O . O X . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O X , X . . . . , . . X . X , . . . |
$$ | O X . X . X . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | X . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

---

I'm sure I made other mistakes this game, but the story of this game is pretty simple, I think:

1. I was naive to think my play on the left would be sente, as described in Position 1.
2. That ended up working out OK, but I played a bad shape move... which was still OK.
3. But I left aji behind for my opponent to exploit, and he utilized it to win the game.

Simple story.

Oh, and I need to play more, I think, to avoid getting even weaker.

_________________
be immersed

I can't download the game but I would think at 144 it's better shape to atari from the other side, then reduce the 3 black stones to 2 liberties by turning at the bottom. I think these stones cannot be saved then.

Wouldn't think of it in the heat of the fight, although it's quite natural to atari stones so that they cannot increase their liberties.

If I understand the sequence you're referring to, after white turns, black can play P6 to save the stones.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$W
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . X O O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . O . O X . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . O O . . . . X O . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | O O X X . . O O X X . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | O X O . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . . O O X X X O O . X . . . |
$$ | X X O O X O . O X . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | X . X O O O X . . , . . X O . , . . . |
$$ | X X X O X O X . X X X X O X 1 . O . . |
$$ | X O X X X O X . O O O . O 2 . . O . . |
$$ | O . O O O X O O . . . . O X . X . . . |
$$ | O O O X X X . . X . O . O 3 4 X O . . |
$$ | O . O X . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O X , X . . . . , . . X . X , . . . |
$$ | O X . X . X . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | X . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

But even so, at this point in the game, I think it's better; I atari'd the way I did because I thought I could capture the stone, but I misread.

_________________
be immersed

I missed the liberty at the right and read a squeeze. In that case, the main error was indeed the one you pointed out earlier. Thx

In my database tenuki is about 50%/50% when there is no White stone close by on the bottom left (think C8). More importantly, however, is that attaching on top is not the 'normal' response, attaching underneath appears about four times as often. So did you expect play to proceed as below, or what? White does get sente but Black gets a very nice shape.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bc The most common Black response at 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . 2 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 3 X X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 1 W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

_________________
Dave Sigaty
"Short-lived are both the praiser and the praised, and rememberer and the remembered..."
- Marcus Aurelius; Meditations, VIII 21