Life In 19x19
http://prod.lifein19x19.com/

Losing 50 more games
http://prod.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=10689		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  emeraldemon [ Mon Aug 11, 2014 2:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Losing 50 more games
There's a Go Proverb: Lose your first 50 games as quickly as possible. Well I haven't been playing very much go lately, and I want to really get back into go and start improving again. And I think the first hurdle for me to get over is this: I don't play very much because I hate losing. Every loss stings and makes me ashamed of my bad play. But I'm going to have to get over that if I wanted to get better.

So I'm setting a goal for myself: to lose 50 games as quickly as possible. Of course I'm going to try to win every game, but I need to accept that I need to lose, and lose often. Along the way I hope to get back to the whole reason I started playing go: enjoying the game.

So here's loss number 1, an embarrassing endgame blunder that threw away a won game. Clearly I have a long way to go :)
Author:  EdLee [ Mon Aug 11, 2014 4:29 pm ]
Post subject: 
emeraldemon wrote:
to lose 50 games as quickly as possible.
Of course, you'll also pick up ~50 wins with even opponents,
so this may take twice as long as you have planned. :)

:w20: did you consider the E3 atari and connect -- trade the corner for the broken shape in sente;
you take out a big chunk of the bottom. Not sure which result is better for W.

:w22: you still have a chance to atari E3 and connect -- broken shape for B in sente.

:w36: Not sure about this push. You make B super strong on top, 5th line territory.
Did you consider o16 or o17 instead ?

:w42: another idea is R10 peep the vital point, make B heavy, counter attack ?
But you have to make sure your heavy group also gets out.

:w52: the other atari, s9 instead ? Hmm, you read :black: s6 and T3…

:w70: L15 direction ? Not sure about this 3rd line move in face of B's massive center wall.

:w94: can you kill with G18 instead ?

:white: 102 B18 instead ? Can you kill something here ?
Also, did you read the other atari D14 instead, and kill the lone stone ?

:white: 110 D19 instead ?
Author:  emeraldemon [ Mon Aug 11, 2014 8:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Losing 50 more games
EdLee, thanks for the comments. I do think black got too much thickness on the right after the fight to :b69: , I'm not sure if the problem was P13, Q11, or maybe the attach underneath at R7? Maybe I should have protected with something like this?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm36
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . W . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X X O . X . . . , . . . X . , O . . |
$$ | . O O X X . . . . X . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I'm hesitant to jump in to black's top side, seems like fighting where black is strong. I think if I'm not going to support the right I'd prefer reinforcing the upper left corner around F17.
Author:  EdLee [ Mon Aug 11, 2014 9:25 pm ]
Post subject: 
Hi Emerald,

In your diagram, B's bottom is not very impressive.

But, the upper right corner, the joseki is B needs
to add a move o16 or o17 to fix his cut there.
Since he didn't fix it, it's still open, I think.
B was not very strong there, yet.
Author:  Bill Spight [ Tue Aug 12, 2014 3:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Losing 50 more games
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm36
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . 2 . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B B O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . W . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X X O . X . . . , . . . X . , O . . |
$$ | . O O X X . . . . X . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


:w36: is joseki with the :wc: stone in place. So is :b37:, but it has an old-timey feel and can perhaps be omitted. Black can give up the :bc: stones if White pushes through. The question is really about a White invasion of the top framework.
Author:  Bill Spight [ Tue Aug 12, 2014 5:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Losing 50 more games
Some comments on the early play. :)
Author:  Knotwilg [ Tue Aug 12, 2014 8:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Losing 50 more games
If you hate losing, try to win.
To increase chances for victory, concentrate on things that make a difference.
I don't concur with the losing proverb.
Cheers
Author:  emeraldemon [ Tue Aug 12, 2014 8:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Losing 50 more games
#2:



I'm not sure whether I should even count these DGS games, since this game started in April and I barely remember what I was thinking months ago. But it's still a game, it still represents my play, so I think I should count it. I tried to put a few comments.

@Knotwilg
Excellent advice! But I think there is some truth to the proverb, that if you're going to improve, you're going to have to lose games. The problem comes when I hate losing so much that the fear of it keeps me from playing at all. That's what I'm trying to correct.

Attachments:
smaragdaemon-puraisu-895919-20140812.sgf [4.04 KiB]
Downloaded 902 times
Author:  emeraldemon [ Tue Aug 12, 2014 8:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Losing 50 more games
@Bill
Thanks for the comments, there were a lot of good moves I just missed or didn't consider. I'm especially blown away that black's monkey jump connect on the right didn't work, I wanted so much to block on the other side but I didn't think I could. Next time read faster :study:
Author:  drmwc [ Wed Aug 13, 2014 3:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Losing 50 more games
Most recent game:

Move 18 you could consider kosumi at E8. Next C7 and pressing at C10 are miai. Howeve, I personally would consider C7 with move 18. It may be an overplay, though, so kosumi (E8) is more normal.

Move 26: I would consider C12 here, to start a fight and aim at eventually activiating C7.

Move 28: I would definitely invade at C12 now. This aims to put black's previous move on a strange point (I think black should have played E12 instead.) The same comment applies to move 32 - where you played may end up putting black's stone on a good point.

Move 36: A bit slow. I would push at D10 instead - black probably can't hane in reply.

Move 40: Push at d10. You should be able to coutner-attack here - connnecting is a bit passive.

Move 44: I like the fighting sprit in this move! However, are your sure you can kill the group if black replies at s8? If not, you've taken a huge loss and might not have sufficient compensation.

Move 56: I agree that the alternative line is pretty big. As played, you've given black a moyo he didn't have before.

End of my comments!
Author:  emeraldemon [ Wed Aug 13, 2014 11:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Losing 50 more games
drmwc, thanks for the comments! It seems like I had chances to cause trouble on the left that I didn't take.

Ok, #3:



This game ended in a big fight that I lost. I tried to comment on the fight at the end, although I'm sure I had many mistakes earlier.

Attachments:
chunger7-greendemon.sgf [6.58 KiB]
Downloaded 1071 times
Author:  Charles Matthews [ Thu Aug 14, 2014 2:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Losing 50 more games
emeraldemon wrote:



:b13: This is negative, and I think this is a typical mistake for high kyus and low dans. Black should expand the framework at the top first. The stone at O13 should be brought into the game right now. The top right enclosure is loose, not tight. To justify it, you should use its extra line to the left. So play around H17 or H16 (less conventional).

:w28: Take the big point on the top side. Then the game looks slightly easier for Black, but basically even.

:b45: Too direct, try F13.

:b59: Why force White to make eyes? The game will be decided now by the top right framework for Black, so reinforce it.
Author:  emeraldemon [ Thu Aug 14, 2014 10:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Losing 50 more games
Thanks Charles. Is an approach at the top worse than extending? It seems like even if white pincers black can get a good result:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Ok for black?
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 1 . 2 . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . 5 , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
Author:  Charles Matthews [ Thu Aug 14, 2014 12:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Losing 50 more games
emeraldemon wrote:
Is an approach at the top worse than extending? It seems like even if white pincers black can get a good result:


I don't know: not strong enough.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B White does well
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . 3 , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


But I don't think White should pincer: it is too early to play on the top side, because Black's enclosure may end up looking good.

I do think :w4: in this variation is a very big point.

My style would be to make White work harder on the left. The approach :b1: and reply :w2: here could be treated by the 123 principle.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B Black can fight in White's framework
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . 1 , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


In this position I would prefer to be Black.
Author:  emeraldemon [ Thu Aug 14, 2014 6:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Losing 50 more games
And loss #4, a 1-point loss on DGS. I tried to look at the endgame a little, but it seems like a long yose where I have a really hard time telling what is best.



Attachments:
S2w-smaragdaemon-895138-20140813.sgf [2.82 KiB]
Downloaded 858 times
Author:  EdLee [ Thu Aug 14, 2014 6:27 pm ]
Post subject: 
Another tenuki game, like Mark's and Matthew's in the US Open. :)

:b15: — quick search ( local shape, 23 pro games ):
D7, 60%, elephant jump ;
C8, 13%, big keima ;
C7, 8%, real game, small keima.

:b21: did you consider Q14 direction instead (start to build a big right side moyo. )

:w22: W has a choice to the avalanches direction, thanks to :b21: .
Author:  Bill Spight [ Thu Aug 14, 2014 11:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Losing 50 more games
In the endgame you made a couple of losing sente plays that look like they made the difference.

Go to move 157.
Author:  drmwc [ Fri Aug 15, 2014 10:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Losing 50 more games
In addition to Bill's comments, which I completely agree with, I suspect 163 may have lost a point or so as well:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B 2 tenukis
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . X X X 1 |
$$ . . . . . . . O 7 |
$$ . . . . . . O 3 5 |
$$ . . . . . O . 4 6 |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$[/go]


If you have sente, and descend at 1, you next have the wedge at 3. With the 163-168 exchange, this opportunity vanishes:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B No follow up for Black
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . X X X 3 |
$$ . . . . . . 1 O . |
$$ . . . . . . O 2 . |
$$ . . . . . O . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$[/go]
Author:  emeraldemon [ Wed Aug 20, 2014 10:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Losing 50 more games
Away for a bit, but coming back into it. #5: This was a physical-board game, so I only remember the first half. I played black and got a helpful review at the end, mostly about my slack moves.




Attachments:
solomon.sgf [1.35 KiB]
Downloaded 805 times
Author:  Bill Spight [ Wed Aug 20, 2014 4:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Losing 50 more games
A few comments. :)
Page 1 of 3 All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/