Life In 19x19 :: Defeat of the Week

Life In 19x19 http://prod.lifein19x19.com/

Defeat of the Week http://prod.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=10934	Page 1 of 1

Author:	Tami [ Thu Oct 16, 2014 2:39 pm ]
Post subject:	Defeat of the Week
Dear friends, I thought it might be instructive to begin sharing my beatings with you all. Please feel free to comment. My current bee-in-the-bonnet is to try to adapt Josh Kaufman's The First Twenty Hours concept to my go improvement. Obviously I have spent rather longer than that playing and studying go in my life, but I wonder if it would be helpful to break things down into units that can be usefully tackled in chunks of about twenty hours. That is why I make a lot of remarks about "direction of play" in this game's commentary. I can't learn life and death, joseki, fuseki, endgame and moyo reduction all at once; but I can focus for a while on one weakness that I have been told more than once that I have. If you feel you would like to contribute your own "Defeat of the Week" to this thread, please do! All the best!

Author:	EdLee [ Thu Oct 16, 2014 2:56 pm ]
Post subject:
Hi Tami, did you consider the turn at S14 ? You were probably worried about the P17 cut or the O18 clamp ? But they seem not severe to me; I could be wrong, as usual. If S14 works, it's big, because it's sente ( W deviated from joseki on ). can you push one more, at N6, before the atari ? , , -- moves like look like a bad habit, if you don't get a good result here, which is what happened, it seems. After , B's local shape is not good -- just reduced your own libs and wasted 1 ko threat, plus aji keshi; makes a broken shape for B -- basics problems, it seems. You're probably correct about the right side ( very small ) compared with other bigger areas of the board, on . I also like your D8 better.

Author:	mitsun [ Thu Oct 16, 2014 6:04 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Defeat of the Week
Your main weakness is fighting strength, not direction of play, at least in this game (and probably in all games, for all amateurs, but I digress). The fighting sequence from 53-64 turned a favorable position very quickly into an unfavorable position. But you wanted comments on direction of play ... could be any of your suggestions, all are different but good is too early, priority is to reinforce UR or approach LL is normal and good, but both blocks appear playable to me through is an excellent direction and execution, very nice !!! problematic -- sometimes tenuki is the best direction The position after is a good place to pause and evaluate. W has corners worth something like (10+10+8+10) points. B has a position in the upper right worth maybe 10 (real) + 15 (influence) points and a position in the lower right worth maybe 10 (real) + 15 (influence) points. So it looks like B has a significant lead. That means there is no need to launch a speculative attack. The W stone at R10 breaks up the B side, but capturing it would hurt the B position above more than it would gain below. Similarly, investing many moves to directly capture the O6 stones is too small to be worth the effort. So it does not look like B has any severe or profitable attack right now anyway. So I think the direction of play should shift to the lower left corner. F3 is a perfect corner approach plus extension. Bill might say the B position is so thick that it does not need an extension, but it looks very big to me. An approach from the other side at C6 seems playable also, with the idea that you will be pushing W toward the B thickness, but it looks smaller to me. The direct invasion at C3 also looks good. B will take immediate profit, and no matter which direction W blocks, the resulting thickness will already be nullified by the nearby B positions.

Author:	EdLee [ Thu Oct 16, 2014 10:52 pm ]
Post subject:
mitsun wrote: Your main weakness is fighting strength, not direction of play, at least in this game (and probably in all games, for all amateurs, but I digress). This. And mitsun, you didn't digress. At all. You're spot on. Tami, I keep the rest back in Understanding, post 89.

Author:	Bill Spight [ Fri Oct 17, 2014 12:52 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Defeat of the Week
I don't think that direction of play is a particular problem, but perhaps lack of planning is. A few comments.

Author: Uberdude [ Fri Oct 17, 2014 2:08 am ]

Post subject: Re: Defeat of the Week

Just a comment on direction of play in the opening (not as important as fighting mistakes like others said but interesting nonethless):

You said "A big move (R13) for free?"

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

It's sente but it's not for free as white's extension of 2 is itself a valuable move for white that also means you can't extend around there in front of your shimari. You gain some potential above, you lose some below. Now in fact with the large shimari I don't much like r13 (because white can live in the corner more easily) and would probably prefer to play from the r8 direction. Anyway, if you do want to play from the top side, a common strategy is to first approach at f17 first. If white plays c14 then you can develop the top like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . 5 . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Or:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . 7 O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 8 0 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 6 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

14 is honte but perhaps white can tenuki to the top

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bm11 $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . 5 . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 X O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

If white pincers f17 then you just take the corner and the top side is not developable for black any more. Because of that you now want to pressure r10 from below rather than above. So f17 is a probe that helps you decide the correct direction to squeeze r10 from.

Author:	Tami [ Fri Oct 17, 2014 3:27 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Defeat of the Week
Thank you all for your comments. Bill asks if I don't like the Mini-Chinese. I'm a bit wary of playing very well worked-out openings, because I'm not very good at remembering how to play them, and it becomes a bit like playing the Ruy Lopez or Sicilian in chess. And part of me is just a little idiosyncratic - I like openings that are a slightly different. I am taking careful note of the fighting mistakes several of you highlighted, even though my general priority is direction.

Author: Bill Spight [ Fri Oct 17, 2014 9:01 am ]

Post subject: Re: Defeat of the Week

If I am White, ahem, we do not get the following diagram.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , W . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

First, because I do not play :wc:

. (But that's another story.

) But assuming that I did, I do not play :w2:

. Why not? Because the top side is hot now. It started off hot, and :b1:

just made it hotter.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . 2 . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 4 . . . . . , . . . . . , W . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . b . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

So I take the hot point at :w2:

heats up the left side, which was already hot. Now if Black carries out his threat with :b3:

, I play

. Yonrensei, bebi! (Black may play at "a" instead of 3, but that leaves a weakness at "b" because of the weakness of the ogeima enclosure.)

Why can White leave :wc:

without a base? As Takagawa pointed out, even aften :b1:

and

has prevented Black from making an ideal development on the right side.

This kind of insight, BTW, lies at the very beginnings of the development of modern fuseki theory. Once upon a time, a popular opening was komoku, keima gakari, hasami, tenuki. Why did White tenuki after the pincer? Because the approach had prevented an enclosure, which was considered ideal for Black. (Later Black realized that if White was going to tenuki, the pincer was not so good, and even later White realized that, if Black was not going to pincer, an open corner was probably better than the approach. But even today, Go Seigen likes the two space high approach for :w2:

)

Anyway, if you can ignore a pincer early in the game, you can certainly ignore the threat of a pincer, which is what :b1:

is.

Author:	Tami [ Fri Oct 17, 2014 2:59 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Defeat of the Week
Thanks especially for your latest post Bill. I had been beginning to question the traditonal order of play, but your post adds some substance and direction to my questioning.

Page 1 of 1	All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group http://www.phpbb.com/