Life In 19x19 :: eternal beta's

stalkor wrote:

Today i had a weird encounter by someone who was promoted into alpha class but didnt want to get promoted.

He wanted to stay in beta because he thinks he can learn more from ppl slightly stronger then a lot stronger and asked for someone else to get promoted in his stead.

Luckily for him i found out later i made a mistake with the reset and put him in beta as he wanted (i wouldnt have done it if that didnt happen).

So then can I request to be promoted even though I don't deserve it?

The rules should be the same for everyone.

Actually I noticed you are seeding some dans into Gamma, and I feel cheated. Why wasn't I seeded into Gamma? Surely you don't think I couldn't make it to at least beta again like last time. So that's why rules are important. I don't really care about where I, personally, was seeded, I just care that the rules are the same for everyone.

Quote:

So, what do you guys think about players that try to neither get promoted or demoted? should players in beta really be scared of getting in alpha? i'm curious what you guys think.

It's equivalent to cheating -- throwing a game so you don't get promoted means you arbitrarily assign points to certain players. This will affect promotion structure. I've had people say to me they will not play me because I am in the #1 spot and they want a chance to be #1. I've heard that some people intentionally lose to others to help them promote. Such people don't really understand how leagues like this work and it's dangerous to allow them to have their way with the rules.

I'd just kick people like that out, we already have 300 players.

Author:	stalkor [ Mon Aug 01, 2011 2:44 pm ]
Post subject:	eternal beta's
Today i had a weird encounter by someone who was promoted into alpha class but didnt want to get promoted. He wanted to stay in beta because he thinks he can learn more from ppl slightly stronger then a lot stronger and asked for someone else to get promoted in his stead. Luckily for him i found out later i made a mistake with the reset and put him in beta as he wanted (i wouldnt have done it if that didnt happen). My concern however is that it seems there are more players in the beta classes that play in the league not to get promoted but to stay in beta. This may be a reason why some beta classes seem inactive but in reality a few players of that class are online often. If more players adapt this "strategy" it could suffocate that class i think (players dont want to play because of the fear of getting in promotion zone, or getting in demotion zone. or even worse, lose on purpose to get someone else ahead so he can stay in beta) So, what do you guys think about players that try to neither get promoted or demoted? should players in beta really be scared of getting in alpha? i'm curious what you guys think.

Author:	Jash [ Mon Aug 01, 2011 3:13 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: eternal beta's
Well, after 1 year in the ASR, it's the first time i hear about someone who doesn't wanna be in alpha. I remember when i was a beta player i was dying to play stronger opponents to get better faster! unfortunately i never made it to the top class (I was in beta when it was as hardcore as alpha, and playing a lot of games was barely enough not to get demoted)! As for the person not wanting to promote i think the rules should be enforced and he should promote. I would also suggest to clearly specify the rules to promote the wildcards (for ex more spot are open in beta because of some people who quit or didn't play 4 games)

Author:	stalkor [ Mon Aug 01, 2011 3:39 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: eternal beta's
this surprised me too, not wanting the opportunity to play in alpha because quote 'i can't understand what 3d or higher do or teach me' the rules about extra promotions are pretty vague even for me. For instance i had a 3 way tie for 1 safezone spot where only 1 out of 6 games between them was played and they had basically the same number of games....judging that is tough and in the end i couldnt decide so i decided to let them all stay in the safezone, regardless of class size issues that may arise. To explain all the rules about extra promotions id probably need to explain several cases which are specific to 1 instance that might happen:p so lots o work and collaboration with fellow admins before i decide these things usually. Btw beta this month has about 25+ dangrades, alpha is probaly weaker, will he still have fun there you think? explain several cases which are specific to 1 instance that might happen:p so lots o work and collaboration with fellow admins before i decide these things usually. Btw beta this month has about 25+ dangrades, alpha is probaly weaker, will he still have fun there you think?

Author:	Jash [ Mon Aug 01, 2011 4:08 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: eternal beta's
I trust your judgement for extra promotions =)! As for alpha, yes it's been relatively weak the past months due to the dan exodus, but still it's pretty strongish and there are quite a lot of good players there. Anyway, nothing can guarantee that next month beta will be stronger that alpha or more active!

Author:	stalkor [ Sat Aug 06, 2011 11:30 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: eternal beta's
i've been thinking of reasons why you would aim to stay in beta and the only reason i could come up with that also makes sense is this: ''my class is too strong and i have no chance to promote, i should try and at least stay in the class.'' though this aimed for ''not demoting'' instead of ''not promoting''. Maybe it has to do with the fun factor. ''i will lose so much i won't have fun playing league games'' seems reasonable but imo is a negative attitude towards playing go. I wonder if this is a way of being able to say to yourself ''i'm good at playing go because i win a lot'' and be happy just like that. Imo playing in the league certainly as a beta or alpha means that you want to progress and move forward, after all, you've come all the way to there! After all, i fail to understand...

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eternal beta's http://prod.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=4368	Page 1 of 1

Author:	usagi [ Thu Aug 18, 2011 9:10 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: eternal beta's
stalkor wrote: Today i had a weird encounter by someone who was promoted into alpha class but didnt want to get promoted. He wanted to stay in beta because he thinks he can learn more from ppl slightly stronger then a lot stronger and asked for someone else to get promoted in his stead. Luckily for him i found out later i made a mistake with the reset and put him in beta as he wanted (i wouldnt have done it if that didnt happen). So then can I request to be promoted even though I don't deserve it? The rules should be the same for everyone. Actually I noticed you are seeding some dans into Gamma, and I feel cheated. Why wasn't I seeded into Gamma? Surely you don't think I couldn't make it to at least beta again like last time. So that's why rules are important. I don't really care about where I, personally, was seeded, I just care that the rules are the same for everyone. Quote: So, what do you guys think about players that try to neither get promoted or demoted? should players in beta really be scared of getting in alpha? i'm curious what you guys think. It's equivalent to cheating -- throwing a game so you don't get promoted means you arbitrarily assign points to certain players. This will affect promotion structure. I've had people say to me they will not play me because I am in the #1 spot and they want a chance to be #1. I've heard that some people intentionally lose to others to help them promote. Such people don't really understand how leagues like this work and it's dangerous to allow them to have their way with the rules. I'd just kick people like that out, we already have 300 players.

Author:	stalkor [ Fri Aug 19, 2011 12:11 am ]
Post subject:	Re: eternal beta's
usagi wrote: stalkor wrote: Today i had a weird encounter by someone who was promoted into alpha class but didnt want to get promoted. He wanted to stay in beta because he thinks he can learn more from ppl slightly stronger then a lot stronger and asked for someone else to get promoted in his stead. Luckily for him i found out later i made a mistake with the reset and put him in beta as he wanted (i wouldnt have done it if that didnt happen). So then can I request to be promoted even though I don't deserve it? The rules should be the same for everyone. Actually I noticed you are seeding some dans into Gamma, and I feel cheated. Why wasn't I seeded into Gamma? Surely you don't think I couldn't make it to at least beta again like last time. So that's why rules are important. I don't really care about where I, personally, was seeded, I just care that the rules are the same for everyone. Quote: So, what do you guys think about players that try to neither get promoted or demoted? should players in beta really be scared of getting in alpha? i'm curious what you guys think. It's equivalent to cheating -- throwing a game so you don't get promoted means you arbitrarily assign points to certain players. This will affect promotion structure. I've had people say to me they will not play me because I am in the #1 spot and they want a chance to be #1. I've heard that some people intentionally lose to others to help them promote. Such people don't really understand how leagues like this work and it's dangerous to allow them to have their way with the rules. I'd just kick people like that out, we already have 300 players. We usually only seeds strong dan players 3d+ and by exception a 2d. If i remember correctly i did not add you to the league so i guess that person just did what was asked of him. It's truly a terrifying thing that this is happening. the league should be a competition and no freebie giveaway fest. not playing seriously is one thing but blatantly throwing games is just wrong.

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