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Ranking Systems: Have you considered TrueSkill?
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Author:  Charlie [ Thu Feb 09, 2012 7:46 am ]
Post subject:  Ranking Systems: Have you considered TrueSkill?
Have you considered using a post-modern ranking system designed specifically for online games, such as Microsoft's TrueSkill, instead of a Go-specific rank?

http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/projects/trueskill/

I recently discovered TrueSkill in the Google A.I. Challenge (Ants) that ended in December, last year. I know it isn't designed for Go so it wouldn't yield dan and kyu rankings but no existing online servers give very good dan or kyu rankings anyway. Consider KGS, for instance, with its vastly skewed ranking system. (I'm four ranks stronger on KGS than on our national system, here in South Africa)

What TrueSkill does give you is some indication of confidence.

Of course, using something like this would demand some research into handicapping against skill-differences.

Eventually, I suppose you could find some players who are ranked in real life and use their real-world ranks to seed the system and thereby assign dan and kyu ranks, too.
Author:  topazg [ Thu Feb 09, 2012 7:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ranking Systems: Have you considered TrueSkill?
The server currently uses Glicko2, which means it already has confidence inbuilt - what advantages would TrueSkill provide?
Author:  amnal [ Thu Feb 09, 2012 9:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ranking Systems: Have you considered TrueSkill?
Quote:
Consider KGS, for instance, with its vastly skewed ranking system. (I'm four ranks stronger on KGS than on our national system, here in South Africa)


KGS' ranking system isn't intended to predict players South African rating system grades, nor is there any particular reason for it to do so.
Author:  gurujeet [ Thu Feb 09, 2012 9:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ranking Systems: Have you considered TrueSkill?
The TrueSkill algorithm was built to also be able to assign credit to an individual in team play. This could be interesting in go if one were to think of handicap and komi as pseudo-players on a team with their own rating. The algorithm would adjust the individual's contribution while also takiing into account contributions from the 'team'. More information on the algorithm can be found here: http://research.microsoft.com/apps/pubs/default.aspx?id=67956.

The team behind the research are go players and also resposible for the AI in the XBox game The Path of Go.

- gurujeet
Author:  daniel_the_smith [ Thu Feb 09, 2012 10:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ranking Systems: Have you considered TrueSkill?
TrueSkill would be good for rating rengo games... :)
Author:  ez4u [ Thu Feb 09, 2012 4:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ranking Systems: Have you considered TrueSkill?
Charlie wrote:
Have you considered using a post-modern ranking system designed specifically for online games, such as Microsoft's TrueSkill, instead of a Go-specific rank?

http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/projects/trueskill/

I recently discovered TrueSkill in the Google A.I. Challenge (Ants) that ended in December, last year. I know it isn't designed for Go so it wouldn't yield dan and kyu rankings but no existing online servers give very good dan or kyu rankings anyway. Consider KGS, for instance, with its vastly skewed ranking system. (I'm four ranks stronger on KGS than on our national system, here in South Africa)

What TrueSkill does give you is some indication of confidence.

Of course, using something like this would demand some research into handicapping against skill-differences.

Eventually, I suppose you could find some players who are ranked in real life and use their real-world ranks to seed the system and thereby assign dan and kyu ranks, too.

There is nothing new about TrueSkill. Remi Coulom used it as one of the comparison systems in his research. See the paper for his results: http://remi.coulom.free.fr/WHR/. As far as the comment on KGS, I believe you have (inadvertently perhaps) said more about the South African rating system than KGS. :blackeye:
Author:  Suji [ Mon Feb 20, 2012 11:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ranking Systems: Have you considered TrueSkill?
You can't really compare your South African rank with your rank on KGS. Here's why: They have two completely different pools of players, and all a ranking is, is a comparison of how well you are playing within that pool of players.
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