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| Playing Go improved your chess game? http://prod.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=7213 |
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| Author: | Linokai [ Fri Nov 16, 2012 8:49 am ] |
| Post subject: | Playing Go improved your chess game? |
I've never been very good at chess, & unlike Go, when I lose at chess I just get frustrated to no end  , so I don't play it very often, but I've noticed that in the few chess games I've played since I started playing Go that my skill in chess has improved A LOT.  Normal? Not normal? Crazy? Ironic?
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| Author: | skydyr [ Fri Nov 16, 2012 8:52 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Playing Go improved your chess game? |
I noticed this too. I think that reading ability in go carries over as a general visualization skill that helps reading in chess, even if the specifics are different. |
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| Author: | Boidhre [ Fri Nov 16, 2012 8:56 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Playing Go improved your chess game? |
I've found my concentration is better since I started playing go and this has had a beneficial effect in the handful of chess games that I've played. I do think though that I'd have to start training chess tactical puzzles to get anywhere with chess though and I don't have the inclination to do that at the moment. Maybe someday though. |
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| Author: | Joaz Banbeck [ Fri Nov 16, 2012 8:59 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Playing Go improved your chess game? |
It helped my chess a lot. Indeed, I haven't lost a single chess game since I started playing go. |
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| Author: | skydyr [ Fri Nov 16, 2012 9:24 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Playing Go improved your chess game? |
Joaz Banbeck wrote: It helped my chess a lot. Indeed, I haven't lost a single chess game since I started playing go. But, how many games have you played? |
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| Author: | TheBigH [ Fri Nov 16, 2012 1:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Playing Go improved your chess game? |
I have always disliked chess and I haven't played in years. But I think that if I were to start playing again I would be better at it because it is all about tactics and reading ahead, and go is good at cultivating that skill with L&D problems, tesuji and the like. |
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| Author: | Faro [ Fri Nov 16, 2012 8:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Playing Go improved your chess game? |
My chess has improved slightly. Although I'm so bad at chess I can only get better, 'Cause I couldn't get any worse  I played a game with a friend the other day and I did notice I'm more patient and put a higher value on my smaller pieces than I used to. I'm a little more cautious now. But none of that stopped me from hanging my Queen
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| Author: | jts [ Fri Nov 16, 2012 8:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Playing Go improved your chess game? |
My little brother began to pull even with me around the same time I picked up go... Hard to know which effect is bigger, but I am better now than I was two years ago. (I'm probably still worse than I was 6 years ago, when I stopped doing the chess puzzle every day.) |
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| Author: | Bartleby [ Sun Nov 18, 2012 1:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Playing Go improved your chess game? |
No, playing Go hasn't helped my chess at all. I am about 10 stones stronger at chess than at Go, so it is not likely that it would. |
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| Author: | John Fairbairn [ Sun Nov 18, 2012 2:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Playing Go improved your chess game? |
I broke off a constitutional earlier this week to pop into the local chess club. I have not played a proper opponent for over 40 years, and only went back because my grandson has started chess, which led me to revisit my own childhood and then to buy a few books, though my main interest in those (as chronicled here) was to see whether chess had anything to offer go. I skipped all the chess-move stuff, but I thought it a rewarding topic, and my my curiosity was piqued enough to try out this club. I entered the chess club in a very, very rusty state, with no memory of openings. Even many terms escaped me. I therefore fell back on go terms. In my first game I won with a neat sacrifice that stemmed directly from go. My opponent had castled king side. His queen was still on her home square and I decided to attack it in sente to develop a bishop for free. He then moved his queen to K1, blocking his king's rook. My instant reaction was, "Oh, that's bad shape." I therefore decided to look for aji to exploit and the obvious item was that he had moved his castle's rook pawn to R3. This led me to spot in the most natural way possible that I could sac my other bishop for that pawn, and I had time to bring over a knight and queen without his king having any chance to escape because his bad-shape queen blocked his rook. Finishing my constitutional on the way back home, I felt rather elated to have produced such a finish in my first club game in over 40 years, but at the same time I had a very powerful feeling that it wasn't me that did it, it was simple go knowledge. One thing go could learn from this chess club, however, is how to attract club members. Over 40 people were present and since the club runs 11 teams in 8 leagues, not to mention having its own internal tournaments and a junior coaching setup, the full membership is clearly higher. This is just a suburban club, so the overall London scene is clearly very healthy. The most striking thing was that I was welcomed as soon as I walked through the door. I have never had that in 40 years of going to go clubs (except in Japan). My greeter did not ask me how strong I was or tell me what the fee was, which two things are usually in the first or second sentence in a go club once you have eventually force someone to "greet" you. Instead he simply asked me whether I wanted social chess or competitive chess, and he outlined what was available at each level. Not once did he mention money, though he eventually asked at what level I wanted to play and since I said I had no idea what level I was now, he also went and found an opponent for me. The nice touch was that it was another retiree who had also returned to chess the year before after decades away, and so I did not feel the slightest awkwardness. Even at home time I had still not been asked for money so I went and asked to see the money man. Another very pleasant chat ensued, the upshot of which was that if I felt like coming back, I should just come for several weeks to see whether I like it. Once I decided I did, I could start paying - at the ridiculous rate of £30 a year. Internet games are even more easily available for chess than for go, so the size of this live club made me wonder whether it is really true that the internet is killing off live go. My experience with welcomes in go clubs won't be shared by everyone of course, but over the years I have heard very many people make the same complaint as me (and not just in the UK). Maybe that is what is killing off live go. This chess club was a total contrast, but of course I have no idea how typical it is. I can only observe that the size of the local leagues suggests that many other chess clubs here are likewise able, for whatever reason, to recruit and retain large numbers of members. |
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| Author: | Faro [ Mon Nov 19, 2012 1:37 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Playing Go improved your chess game? |
John Fairbairn wrote: Even at home time I had still not been asked for money so I went and asked to see the money man. Another very pleasant chat ensued, the upshot of which was that if I felt like coming back, I should just come for several weeks to see whether I like it. Once I decided I did, I could start paying - at the ridiculous rate of £30 a year. Internet games are even more easily available for chess than for go, so the size of this live club made me wonder whether it is really true that the internet is killing off live go. My experience with welcomes in go clubs won't be shared by everyone of course, but over the years I have heard very many people make the same complaint as me (and not just in the UK). Maybe that is what is killing off live go. This chess club was a total contrast, but of course I have no idea how typical it is. I can only observe that the size of the local leagues suggests that many other chess clubs here are likewise able, for whatever reason, to recruit and retain large numbers of members. In defense of the Go clubs, I would assume they would have fewer members, and thus money would be more of a factor to cover any costs of running the club, renting a space, ect. So I could understand them being more hard up for cash. Although we don't really have anywhere like that around me, So I can only speculate. I would also speculate that the internet is indeed killing live go, which is really a crying shame. It is not at all uncommon to have Dan level players who have never touched a real stone before. I would attribute this as well too the much smaller degree of popularity go has in the west. Anyone cal log on to a go server and play a game anytime, anywhere. But if I want a real live game with a real person, I need to either wait until Tuesday when then local club plays (for about 2 hours, once a week) or find someone I know who plays (which includes one 30 kyu at the moment) and see if they are free and schedule a game. However if my city had an actual place where I could go, pay a fee and get a real game, I would be insanely happy just to be in such a place and would not concern myself with being asked for money upfront. |
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| Author: | hyperpape [ Mon Nov 19, 2012 1:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Playing Go improved your chess game? |
John Fairbairn wrote: Instead he simply asked me whether I wanted social chess or competitive chess, and he outlined what was available at each level. Not once did he mention money, though he eventually asked at what level I wanted to play and since I said I had no idea what level I was now, he also went and found an opponent for me. I agree with everything you said about atmosphere. It doesn't come naturally to me when I'm at a club, since I'm part of the "sullen expression, dark colored t-shirt" crowd, but I've had friends who were great at it, and you really need them for a club. When he asked you what level you were and described what was available, did he use terms like beginner, expert or what? "How strong are you?" is both jargon and needlessly aggressive, but I feel like I don't have an alternative ready to hand. |
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| Author: | EdLee [ Mon Nov 19, 2012 2:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
hyperpape wrote: "How strong are you?" is both jargon and needlessly aggressive, but I feel like I don't have an alternative ready to hand. I like "What's your (approx.) level?" or maybe in the chess world, "What's your (such-and-such) rating?" |
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| Author: | jts [ Mon Nov 19, 2012 2:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Playing Go improved your chess game? |
"are you new to the game?" is a nice euphemism for "how strong are you?" if the answer is "30k" they'll answer appropriately, and if they have a rank they'll figure out what you're asking without being told. |
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| Author: | TheBigH [ Mon Nov 19, 2012 2:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Playing Go improved your chess game? |
Why do you want to know how strong the visiting player is? It's to pair them with another player of similar strength, right? You could try something like, "Hello, welcome to the club. Have you played before? Oh, you have. Good. Let's see if we can find you someone around your strength." I think something like that would be better than going, "HOW STRONG ARE YOU?!?!? ARE YOU A GOOD PLAYER?!?!?" |
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| Author: | Thunkd [ Tue Nov 20, 2012 6:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Playing Go improved your chess game? |
Bartleby wrote: I am about 10 stones stronger at chess than at Go Ha. Then I'll play you in chess and you can give me a 10 stone handicap. Go ruined my chess game. I haven't won a chess game since I started playing Go. |
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| Author: | logan [ Tue Nov 20, 2012 6:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Playing Go improved your chess game? |
Yes, I have great experience of go making my chess easier. I only knew rules from childhood, so went to city chess club and told them I was a beginner. They were kind and explained to me about some heuristics and techniques. However, by the end of the night almost no one could believe I was a beginner. But everything was new to me. They explained opening lines like joseki, and I kindly listened remembering "that memorizing joseki make you two stones weaker, but learning them makes you two stones stronger." Some people were very obsessed with them, so I could tell like a go player who focuses too much on joseki that they probably had reached wall because of their approach to learning. To keep long story short, I just learned few basic openings and focused on endgame and tactics problems for couple of months and reached about 1800. After this I stopped for various reasons. I like both chess and go, but only enough time and energy for one 
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| Author: | Mef [ Tue Nov 20, 2012 10:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Playing Go improved your chess game? |
John Fairbairn wrote: My greeter did not ask me how strong I was or tell me what the fee was, which two things are usually in the first or second sentence in a go club once you have eventually force someone to "greet" you. Perhaps it's different on your side of the pond, but from my experience the first question I get asked when showing up at a go club meeting is something to the extent of "Are you sure you're in the right place?". There is almost a shock at the idea of a new player showing up. Back on the original thread topic, I think the strategic ideas from go and the ability to visualize variations have both helped my chess (Though admittedly it would have been darn near impossible to hurt it...). |
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| Author: | Phelan [ Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:30 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Playing Go improved your chess game? |
I think I actually got worse at chess after learning Go , but that might be from lack of playing. I often don't see direct threats anymore. 
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| Author: | Thunkd [ Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:47 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Playing Go improved your chess game? |
Mef wrote: Perhaps it's different on your side of the pond, but from my experience the first question I get asked when showing up at a go club meeting is something to the extent of "Are you sure you're in the right place?". There is almost a shock at the idea of a new player showing up. Our club plays at a local coffehouse, so we quite often get people stopping and watching. Typically we'll ask them if they play go. I always like to follow up a "No" answer with "Would you like to?" I like playing in a public space, we get to abduct... erm... convert people to Go players. |
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