Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$W (a) and (b) miai
$$ +--------------
$$ | a 4 3 . . . .
$$ | . O X X . . .
$$ | O O O X . 6 .
$$ | . O X O 5 . .
$$ | b 1 X . . . .
$$ | . 2 X . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . O . . .
$$ | . . . X . . .
$$ | . . O O O . .
$$ | . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X X X . .
$$ | . . X O . . .
$$ | . . X O . . .
$$ | . . O . . . .[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$W
$$ +--------------
$$ | . . 3 . . . .
$$ | . O X X . . .
$$ | O O O X . 6 .
$$ | . O X O 5 . .
$$ | 4 1 X . . . .
$$ | . 2 X . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . O . . .
$$ | . . . X . . .
$$ | . . O O O . .
$$ | . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X X X . .
$$ | . . X O . . .
$$ | . . X O . . .
$$ | . . O . . . .[/go]

simply capture the throw-in, you can't get rid of the eye.

edit:
@EdLee:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$W
$$ +--------------
$$ | . . 3 . . . .
$$ | . O X X 6 7 .
$$ | O O O X 5 . .
$$ | . O X O . . .
$$ | 4 1 X . . . .
$$ | . 2 X . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . O . . .
$$ | . . . X . . .
$$ | . . O O O . .
$$ | . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X X X . .
$$ | . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . .[/go]

white can bridge under and black gets overconcentrated.


However, if black throws in and blocks white loses a liberty, so it seems to be ko?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$W
$$ +--------------
$$ | 5 4 3 6 . . .
$$ | . O X X . . .
$$ | O O O X . . .
$$ | . O X O . . .
$$ | . 1 X . . . .
$$ | . 2 X . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . O . . .
$$ | . . . X . . .
$$ | . . O O O . .
$$ | . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X X X . .
$$ | . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . .[/go]

If black blocks directly without throwing in, the corner has one more liberty, so maybe w can simply connect?
Not sure, that's the variation I kind of glossed over.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$W (c) and (d) miai
$$ +----------------
$$ | . . 3 . . . . .
$$ | . O X X 6 . . .
$$ | O O O X 5 7 d .
$$ | . O X O 8 0 . .
$$ | 4 1 X 9 . . . .
$$ | . 2 X c . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . O . . . .
$$ | . . . X . . . .
$$ | . . O O O . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X X X . . .
$$ | . . X O . . . .
$$ | . . X O . . . .
$$ | . . O . . . . .[/go]

Even if W lives, this result is much better than in the game:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$W
$$ +--------------
$$ | . . 3 . . . .
$$ | . O X X . . .
$$ | O O O X . . .
$$ | . O X O 4 . .
$$ | 5 1 X . . . .
$$ | . 2 X . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . O . . .
$$ | . . . X . . .
$$ | . . O O O . .
$$ | . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X X X . .
$$ | . . X O . . .
$$ | . . X O . . .
$$ | . . O . . . .[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$W (c) and (d) miai
$$ +--------------
$$ | . . 3 . . . . .
$$ | . O X X 8 . . .
$$ | O O O X 5 9 d .
$$ | . O X O 6 0 . .
$$ | 4 1 X 7 . . . .
$$ | . 2 X c . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . O . . . .
$$ | . . . X . . . .
$$ | . . O O O . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X X X . . .
$$ | . . X O . . . .
$$ | . . X O . . . .
$$ | . . O . . . . .[/go]

EdLee: in your last diagramm 7 at 8 and w bridges under.

I know W has the double hane. I can only edit so fast.
It only takes a few seconds to type one sentence. It takes much longer to edit, check variations, edit, etc. Complications:

Give the rest of the mistakes Krama is making, this is the most important point (apart from playing the atari initially). First stop playing like a 10 kyu, once you can play like a 1 kyu you can start worrying about playing better than that (if trying to kill is even better which I am not sure of). Against irritating invaders (which I don't actually think this white particularly is, black just played slack bad shapes and made plenty of his own mistakes) playing solid good shape and letting them live whilst you amass more thickness and territory is usually the easy way to win.

I came to exactly the same conclusion. Then I had the following epiphany:



But later after watching my strategy fail more often than not, I started to realize:



Which is where I am now, trying desperately to avoid:



The thing is, that takes time and effort, whereas changing one's style can be done in a minute.

_________________
Patience, grasshopper.

Thank you all for helping me out, how do you suggest I work on my basic shapes? To tell you the truth I never actually studied basic shapes, I just watched other people play (and they made these mistakes) so it kinda is stuck with me. How do I unlearn this? Which books on shapes are good for this, or perhaps I should just study pro games?

Hello, I'm currently studying these and I like them :
http://www.britgo.org/bgj/06224.html
http://www.badukworld.co.kr/biz/lesson2 ... shape.html

_________________
Converting the book Shape UP! by Charles Matthews/Seong-June Kim
to the gobook format. last updated april 2015 - Index of shapes, p.211 / 216

Instead of playing instinctively in a few seconds, spend at least 30 seconds per move and ask yourself what you are trying to achieve and consider at least 2 alternative moves and evaluate their pros and cons versus your original idea. I expect you have the capability to play better but you are just too lazy to think more.

Yes, this is what I should do. By the way, I played the same person that I lost to few minutes after, and while I did a lot of mistakes they were not as severe, I decided to play more calmly and simply and the game resulted in a ~20 point win for me. I guess the key is to take it slow and think while playing.

Crap, that totally sounds like me, too :/:(

_________________
Geek of all trades, master of none: the motto for my blog mostlymaths.net

I don't think the problem is necessarily being too lazy, but rather being incapable of considering these factors in 30 seconds. I know many of you stronger players find it amusing to see the likes of us complaining about losing while playing too fast, but I find it hard to imagine a position so simple that I could do such an analysis in 30 seconds, and probably would need a few minutes to even approach doing it adequately, so the fatal tendency is not to do it at all unless the situation seems critical, in which case it may well be too late anyway.

_________________
Patience, grasshopper.

30 seconds is a minimum, not a maximum, time per move. I thoroughly recommended spending longer if you need to. My point was to have some mental discipline to at least consider 3 moves each play and think about them a bit, you don't need to do a full evaluation. I find it useful to imagine a stronger player over my shoulder critiquing my moves as a I play e.g. "What would Guo Juan say about this move in the review?". Of course there are certain moves you, Krama and indeed I are too weak to consider, and faulty judgements can lead to dismissing the better move, but for something like that crucial atari at the top left if you go through that mental checklist I would expect an sdk to be able to consider it, though perhaps dismiss it from fear of ko.

Somebody (including yourself) still needs to look at your shapes in your games.
Studying joseki is good. Reading good books and other good materials about good shapes is good.
But at the end of the day, somebody still needs to review your moves.
Continue to get reviews here (or KGS, etc.).

Related Thread.

What about something like this? I can't see how White wins the fight in the corner, the marked stone adds some aji that seems to affect White's attempts to capture Black...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X X O 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O O O X O 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O 2 . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . B . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

_________________
Dave Sigaty
"Short-lived are both the praiser and the praised, and rememberer and the remembered..."
- Marcus Aurelius; Meditations, VIII 21

A suggestion for keen readers (Krama, daal?): how about going through that game and making at least 3 suggestions per move? Is it really so hard to find better moves? I've done it in the hidden below, are my moves (and I think I've suggested moves good enough to play dan level) impossible for you to find, or is the problem you find but reject them?

Wow, thanks Uberdude!!


I learned a lot from this topic alone, you guys are really helpful.

I will try to play more games with at least 30 seconds of thinking in between every move.