White's best response to anything Black plays in the top left (not attachment or shoulder hit, obviously) is to one-space jump from the weak group. Where do you want your stone in the top left to be after he does that?

Edit. If Black plays knight's enclosure W can make a 1-space extension on top. Given that, I'll specify that the enclosure should be the large knight's enclosure.

Thanks for clarifying.

For some reason, I thought you were talking about enclosing the top right corner, but now I think you're talking about the top left.

If so, that makes sense to me.

_________________
be immersed

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$ Position at move 31
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . B . . O . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . X , . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

You didn't consider this play?

(I see that Shaddy has made the same point. )

_________________
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.

Giving a new meaning to connect and die?

_________________
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bcm49
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . X . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . X X . O O . O . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . X . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X . X . . . . . , . . . . X , . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . 1 . O . . O . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . 2 . . X 3 . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

If you are going to play why play ?

_________________
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.

I thought I got to play for both sides. helped the strength of the left side group, so I felt more comfortable taking territory, and giving him a wall.

That was my reasoning, anyway.

_________________
be immersed

OK, let's assume that you are right. Let's also assume that you opponent, who plays at your level, also has the same understanding.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bcm49
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . X . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . X X . O O . O . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . X . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X . X . . . . . , . . . . X , . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . 1 . O . . O . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X 2 . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Then won't he play this way, rather than give up a lot of territory for a not very efficient wall? Why would he let you get away with your plan?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bcm49
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . X . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . X X . O O . O . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . X . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X . X . . . . . , . . . . X , . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . 1 . O . . O . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . 2 . . B . . 3 . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Had I gotten the - exchange, I would probably have tried , with an eye to sacrificing -- which you did, anyway. makes living with smaller, and maybe harder. The gain from is smaller than it looks if lives.

_________________
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.

If he did this, probably I'd take the corner, then:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bcm49
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . X . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . X X . O O . O . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . X . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X . X . . . . . , . . . . X , . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . 1 . O . . O . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . 3 . . X 2 . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

The way this conversation is going, though, presumably the bottom is bigger than the corner?

If that's the case, I suppose the suggestion is to play the bottom immediately?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bcm49
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . X . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . X X . O O . O . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . X . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X . X . . . . . , . . . . X , . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X 1 . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Is that what you mean?

_________________
be immersed

I suppose that you do not think that is sente. In that case it is a large yose, right?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bcm49
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . X . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . X X . O O . O . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . X . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X . X . . . . . , . . . . X , . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . a . O . . O . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . a . . X . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Earlier in the game I would have played at C-03. At this point I see three possible plays in the corner for Black, at the "a" points. C-03 gives White a bit of a dilemma, but at this point they all seem premature. That was my point. That said, G-03 looks pretty good, eh?

Edit:
Let me take that back. My original point was to refute your argument. Your argument is similar to the one that says, Instead of playing at A right away, I'll play at B which will force C, which in turn will force A (or at least make it bigger or more urgent). The second argument is not exactly a valid one, but it is a good heuristic. My refutation is first, that C does not force A nor does it make it bigger or more urgent, since Black can sacrifice ; and second, that B does not force C, either.

_________________
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.

Took me awhile to parse the bit about A's, B's, and C's.

I interpret that as saying that my slide doesn't force 3-3; you gave an alternative.
And that alternative doesn't force me to play 3-3.

And starting with 3-3 is the best choice, but not until later. Right?

I like 3-3 alright, though in the game, I feared white would block at c4 and thereby weaken c6.

_________________
be immersed

What I meant to say was that Black B-04 does not force White C-03. In fact, White C-03 does not protect any territory. And White C-03 does not force G-03, much less make it larger. In fact, it hinders Black's development towards the corner. So the argument that Black should exchange B-04 with C-03 before playing G-03 does not hold up.

If Black starts with G-03, what happens later in the corner is still undetermined. Subsequent developments may make that clear.

_________________
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.

I guess the point is, when I play one, the value of the other is reduced.

I usually want to take it all during the game, so maybe it's hard to notice this during the game.

Good point.

_________________
be immersed

Well, the fact that Black G-03 gains less after White plays C-03 should be obvious.

I was surprised that White replied at C-03. I thought that 2 dans knew that there is generally little point in protecting non-territory.



Wanting to take it all is a well known go sin: Greed.



Maintaining balance and grabbing your chances is not trying to take it all.



Wanting to take it all appears to have affected your reading. White replied at C-03, which may be what you expected, but did you look at a White reply at G-03? After White's reply you played G-03, as you had originally planned, but did you consider J-03?

It is not that your reading was complicated, but considering those plays is not complicated, either.

_________________
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.

I agree. I've thought about what Magicwand said, and I kind of agree, and kind of don't agree.

Overall, I think that a big problem is that my reading is not very flexible. I have some areas where I have fixed idea. In this case, after the slide, I had fixed idea that he would respond at 3-3, and then I would have sente to move on to take territory on the bottom (which may not have even been that big).

I think that Magicwand sees some of these fixed ideas in my reading, so maybe he attributes it to being too complicated. So he suggested to read less.

But I think the root cause is different. I think I need to be more flexible, and consider more possibilities - get rid of fixed ideas.

I don't know 100% that I'm right, but I wrote a few days ago about motivation. If, aside from rank, motivation comes from playing a well thought out game, then necessarily, I have to take the effort to read more - and perhaps it'd help to be more flexible... So if being a stronger player means reading less, or being less complicated, then I don't want to be a strong go player. But I think that things can be solved if I am simply more flexible, and get rid of some of these fixed ideas.

How to do that? I'm not quite sure. Maybe conscious effort when I am playing and when I am doing go problems.

_________________
be immersed

That suggests that you need to broaden your reading.



Good.



There is more to thinking than reading.



Flexibility usually means being more complicated.



I still recommend the exercise of playing over pro games, picking your 5 best candidate moves and then checking to see if the pro's choice is among them. If not, that can be a clue about where your thinking is too narrow.

As for reading, perhaps broader, shallower reading during games would be good.

_________________
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.

Okay, okay, I will do it

I will post my review here when I do.

_________________
be immersed

Pro Game Exercise

I decided to give Bill's idea a shot. Since there was recent discussion with Magicwand about being sticky, and I found out that Kang Dong Yun is sticky, I picked one of his games at random.

I'd never seen it before.

So basically, I opened up the file, and prior to each move, I labeled the SGF with 'A', 'B', 'C', 'D', and 'E' on potential moves that I'd select, in order of preference (eg. I like move 'A' better than move 'E'). I used CGoban, because multigo gives the move label in the tree variation, whereas it's hidden in CGoban, so I don't know what the next move will be.

Here is the SGF:




The Result
First of all, this exercise was more tiring than I had imagined. I will have to think about my moves vs. the pro moves more in detail tomorrow, after I get some sleep.

I have the following initial observations:
* The pro moves were among my top 5 choices for the first 29 moves. It went downhill from there
* During the early middle game, I had a strong tendency to want to play on the bottom - the area where both black and white could play. As early as move 22, I wanted to play in that area. I guess it was small, though, because nobody played there until well over 100 moves (move 126, for example).
* The same was true with the atari of white's stone on the left. For many moves, I wanted to either atari as black, or to play there as white to prevent the atari.
* I preferred kicking to just defending the corner.

* It seems that, while I have a rough familiarity of where pros will play for the first 30 moves or so, I am completely lost in the middle game (this game didn't have much of an endgame, since it ended in resignation).

---

Like I said, this was more tiring than I imagined, and also more time consuming. So I will try to think about it more in depth tomorrow, just with the same game.

_________________
be immersed

Hmm, seems like the labels after move 115 don't appear. The game is almost over at that point, and I wasn't that accurate for those moves, anyway. So I guess it's OK that the labels don't show up.

_________________
be immersed

Something to think about.



Don't be too hard on yourself. I think you did rather well. You might have done less well in the middle game, but you were not completely lost.

_________________
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.

made me smile. The reason is that this kind of nose play usually fails: it is only tesuji under somewhat unusual circumstances. My onboard shape predictor thought that White's play round here might be at instead.

So much for finding something to learn from the game. Trying to extract the full content is usually a mirage, I believe, for amateurs. But also if you paid too much attention to "no man's land" on the lower side, there is a point of principle, rather than technique.