I simply cannot imagine what they are thinking. It reminds me of the nigerian president.

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A good system naturally covers all corner cases without further effort.

So sad.

"Let's ban our players from being able to participate, because that will make them better."

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KGS: schultz [?].

My only comment is, shocking that this sounds, every country is culturally different and sees fairness in different ways.

I don't know how this decision is viewed by the relevant parties within Singapore itself, and that seems more important than the petitioner and our Westernised view that the situation is terrible.

I would only sign it with a belief that the "ruling party" (for want of a better term) is making this decision in the minority, and that the players / athletes that they are supposed to represent are unhappy with the situation.

<cartman voice>lame!</cartman voice>

Also, the petition to support these players doesn't seem to be going all that well, only 245 people signed so far. I'm a little hesitant to sign it myself because, as Topazg pointed out, there might be some background to this decision I am missing. With the info I currently have, though, it just seems like an unfair ruling and an incomprehensible mistake by the SNOC. So I'm signing it anyway.

There is at least one contributor from singapore at L19, I would be very interested in his comments. Yee Fan?

I fully agree with the above.

I don't understand this decision, but it seems to me that no attempt was made to understand it by anybody, or at least no details are given rather than 'they rejected it' and then people get outraged. I can think of quite a few good reasons such decision can be made... monetary, for example (we can only possibly finance and send X teams, and some just have to be left out), and so on. So, until further details are given, I do not see any reason not to assume that 'they had good reasons'... or not. In any case - too little info to start condemning.

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- Bantari
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WARNING: This post might contain Opinions!!

At least some of the info you say is missing was present in the text Javaness linked to. So the monetary reason is not valid:

Monetary reason was just an example, and even if not valid, there might be other reasons.
We have only heard one side of the story, as far as I can see.

But then, I am really not invested in all that, so should probably have no opinion. Or at least keep quiet. Sorry.

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- Bantari
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WARNING: This post might contain Opinions!!

The reason of the rejection was said on the petition

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长考出臭棋.

http://www.temasekreview.com/2010/07/12 ... game-2010/

Some comments from local people that we can see how they think.

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长考出臭棋.

There are some very, very disturbing comments on that list. Seems like competitive go has a long way to go before it will be accepted by some of these people as an actual endeavor worth pursuing.

Regarding the denial by the SNOC, there seems to be a political issue involved. A lot of the comments mention the government's preference for importing foreign talent in other competitive disciplines besides go. Apparently, some of the people posting there feel like an all-Singapore team would disprove the government's policy of looking for talent elsewhere. That is a pretty serious accusation, but governing bodies are made up of people after all, so I would not be surprised if this decision is an instance of stubbornly denying one's policies are not valid (in a particular area).

Thanks for posting this, very interesting. It has reinforced my desire to stay out of this one, talk about politically hot.

You can say that again. Though I don't think that just because a situation is politically hot go players should turn a blind eye if their fellow players are being treated in this way. Get informed, develop an opinion, then act accordingly. Doing nothing is moving backward I say.

Maybe you misunderstand my reasoning for staying out of it. This is not only a hot topic, but one which I, as an outsider, clearly understand a very small fraction of the cultural picture behind it, and have little easy chance of being informed further from a non-partisan source. Therefore I cannot be sure that any involvement I would take would help rather than hinder, therefore I choose not to get involved.

Speaking as a somewhat singaporean (married to one and used to live there and probably will do again in the future) The problem is many fold. Firstly the SNOC has a massive problem on their hands due to big bust up in the athletics community in Singapore which is still having repurcusions. In addition to this, there is a strong push from the PAP to only enter into events they won't embarass themselves in unless they are using imported talent. Its not so much that they care about the money, its the loss of face from entering a sport they had no chance of winning.

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All is fair in love and war...

...as long as I'm not losing!

Interesting thought, I mean, I really don't understand their way of thinking. So the only solution is either they win CJK players, or they import CJK players so that even if the team lose, it does not lose their (but imported talents') 'face'?

But I thought Singapore players did quite well in Go.

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长考出臭棋.

From what I can gather, those upset with the decision are charging the SNOC with political bias in making that decision. I haven't seen any evidence that SNOC's decision was political in any way. The letter from Chris Chan (SNOC Secretary General) to the Singapore Go Federation President basically states that the players didn't meet their criterion for inclusion. You can doubt that explanation on any number of grounds but to claim that the stated reasons are not the true reasons for rejecting the nomination is a little presumptuous. There needs to be more than just accusations, which is all that I've seen so far. Where's the evidence?

If it's the criteria that are problematic, then efforts to change them for future decisions are really the only recourse at this stage. If there were improprieties in the decision making, someone needs to make that case. Not all decisions will be favorable. That's the nature of the deliberative process. Perhaps everyone who applies should be included?

I also wish that the Singapore National WeiQi team had been given the chance to compete in the 2010 Asian Games. I think there's merit in the claim that the team did meet the SNOC's criterion, but the SNOC who makes those decisions did not.

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"This is a game that rewards patience and balance. You must think like a man of action and act like a man of thought."
-Jonas Skarssen

So, they

• want to use "foreign talent" so that they can blame them when they lose,
• unless they are sure to get a good place with "own talent",
• all for the fear of losing, which they equate with "losing face".

Someone needs to convince them that not playing means they already have lost.

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A good system naturally covers all corner cases without further effort.

Among the comments is an response from the secretary general of SNOC. I read it with lots of incredibility. Of course, we don't have much of a track record in the past year or so. There aren't that many regional and international events in amateur go, at most a few every year, and these are mostly individual events. Therefore, most of the participants would not have the required track record. Kind of a chicken-and-egg problem, since go is not really an established sport here and possibly around the region.

Anyway, the rejection is quite a big bummer when I thought go is at its best here. It is only in the recent years that we have got a lot of very passionate young players, and a number of these young amateurs are getting really strong. I stress the word young, because a good proportion of the players will gradually drop out as they peruse higher studies and enter the workforce, since go alone cannot be our rice bowl.

Harleqin summed up the sentiment that at least part of the population has very well. This applies not just to sports, but education and jobs as well. A number of locals get squeezed out by foreigners, no thanks to the policies. The present government seems to be pretty much in a world of its own, and not serving the interests of the masses very well.

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My homepages: http://senseis.xmp.net/?Unkx80 and http://yeefan.sg/.