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 Post subject: Re: Reduction
Post #41 Posted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 6:01 pm 
Oza
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It is a more useful proverb than play at the obvious point which seemed to be your earlier suggestion...

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Post #42 Posted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 6:11 pm 
Honinbo

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Bantari wrote:
I think this whole discussion is missing the point.
And the point is - we are talking about a 'proverb' not a 'fixed universal rule'.


The discussion is about two things: first, whether there actually is a proverb; second, if so, what it actually says.

I think it is clear that what there is is a prioritized list of things to consider, not a sequence of steps to take. Whether you call it a proverb or not is another question. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Reduction
Post #43 Posted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 6:21 pm 
Judan

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oren wrote:
It is a more useful proverb than play at the obvious point which seemed to be your earlier suggestion...


1) The obvious point condition is more specific than playing at the obvious point.

2) It is a principle, i.e., something that can always be applied if the conditions are fulfilled and paramater obvious assumes clarity.

3) "More useful" depends on which aspect one considers. "Yes" for "more frequently both applicable and leading to success". "No" for "being applicable with a higher priority".

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 Post subject: Re: Reduction
Post #44 Posted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 8:28 pm 
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Bill Spight wrote:
Bantari wrote:
I think this whole discussion is missing the point.
And the point is - we are talking about a 'proverb' not a 'fixed universal rule'.


The discussion is about two things: first, whether there actually is a proverb; second, if so, what it actually says.

I think it is clear that what there is is a prioritized list of things to consider, not a sequence of steps to take. Whether you call it a proverb or not is another question. :)

Oh yeah... there is no spoon... ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Reduction
Post #45 Posted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 9:39 pm 
Oza
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RobertJasiek wrote:
oren wrote:
It is a more useful proverb than play at the obvious point which seemed to be your earlier suggestion...


1) The obvious point condition is more specific than playing at the obvious point.

2) It is a principle, i.e., something that can always be applied if the conditions are fulfilled and paramater obvious assumes clarity.

3) "More useful" depends on which aspect one considers. "Yes" for "more frequently both applicable and leading to success". "No" for "being applicable with a higher priority".


I think all three point away from obvious point. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Reduction
Post #46 Posted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 12:24 am 
Judan

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The point about obvious is that there should be only one obvious point. Reductions and vital points often allow several choices, because there can be several of them in a local position, not infrequently half or more than half of the available intersections. An obvious reduction is nice, but only if it is obvious. Otherwise, it can easily be necessary to verify every reduction, vital point and other interesting move as a candidate for one of the best next correct moves.

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