Kirby's Study Journal

Kirby · **#261**

Charles Matthews wrote:

Kirby wrote:

I think I'm in a slump. I keep losing :-(

,

and I think :b56:

all ended up misplaced. It is harder to fight when your forces lack coordination.

Hmm. I can understand the reason I played some of the moves at the time. For example, I had a reason for playing :b40:

, to help in a particular variation, so I can understand my intention in playing it. But I agree that it looked silly later.

I wonder how to solve this.

ez4u · **#262**

Black 196 should be your original idea of atari. If White connects, you pull out your two stones. White is suffering from a lack of liberties and collapses. So you get to capture two stones and connect your groups. Can White live with only one move at 197? If not, capturing the two stones will even be sente for you.

Kirby · **#263**

ez4u wrote:

Black 196 should be your original idea of atari. If White connects, you pull out your two stones. White is suffering from a lack of liberties and collapses. So you get to capture two stones and connect your groups. Can White live with only one move at 197? If not, capturing the two stones will even be sente for you.

Hmm, yes. Looks obvious now :-)

I didn't consider the possibility that I could connect in sente. If I saved that group in sente, and then could play good endgame, maybe I would have had a chance.

Charles Matthews · **#264**

Kirby wrote:

I wonder how to solve this.

My comment would be that go is not just a "dynamic" game. Sometimes, as at :b8:

in the game, you have to think about occupying key points. They may appear not to have so much effect on your opponent, but that is a kind of illusion.

ez4u · **#265**

Kirby wrote:

...
Learning points:
1. Read out capturing race clearly - don't just go by feeling.
2. Think carefully about when to play safely, and when to apply pressure. Too much pressure at wrong time makes me snap. Not enough pressure makes it easy for the opponent to attack.
3. Get out of this slump...

Recently you seem quite concentrated on the idea that you can read everything out and/or have reasons for every play. This is giving your Go a very self-centered look. You seem to be ignoring alternatives for your opponent and various general conditions/weaknesses on the board that can not yet be resolved into specific tactical situations. In other words, I think your Go is out of balance at the moment. Hence your slump.

ez4u · **#266**

Kirby wrote:

Some learning points.

...
Position 2

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$ Position at move 73 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . O . O . . O X X . X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O . O X O X . X X O . . . 1 . . . | $$ | . . X O . O O X X O O O . O . X O . . | $$ | . . X , . X O O O X X . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . X . X O . . . . O O X . X X O . | $$ | . . . . . X . X . X X . . . . X O O . | $$ | . . O . O X . O X . . . O . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O X . . . O . 2 . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

In response to black's threat on my corner, I connected the group. I can understand a possible tenuki if I was confident I could live, but was my move really that valuable? The fact that he captured the two white stones in sente was huge.

I should simply answer:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$ Position at move 73 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . O . O . . O X X . X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O . O X O X . X X O . . . 1 2 . . | $$ | . . X O . O O X X O O O . O . X O . . | $$ | . . X , . X O O O X X . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . X . X O . . . . O O X . X X O . | $$ | . . . . . X . X . X X . . . . X O O . | $$ | . . O . O X . O X . . . O . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O X . . . O . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

The real reason to defend the corner is not that Black gains a lot of points by capturing the two stones. It is that there is a cut shown below with the double hane of 'a', 'c'. Even if Black defends that cut, there is still the possibility that invading later into the gap between the two-stone pillar at Q11 and the shimari in the lower right corner will threaten Black's eyes. This is especially important because, as Shaddy pointed out, White can cut on the left with a play at 'd'. (Note that the marked Black stone was a big mistake and should have been played at 'e' to make the cut more difficult and less threatening.) As mentioned in my previous post, currently you do not seem to even be looking at these aspects of the game and your play is out of balance at the moment.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc Position at move 73 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . O . O . . O X X . X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O . O X O X . X X O . . . 1 2 . . | $$ | . . X O . O O X X O O O . O . X O . . | $$ | . . X , . X O O O X X . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . X . X O . . . . O O X . X X O . | $$ | . . . . . X d B . X X . . . . X O O . | $$ | . . O . O X . O X . . . O . b a . . . | $$ | . . . . O X . e . O . . . . c . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

ez4u · **#267**

Kirby wrote:

Some learning points...

...
Position 2

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$ Position at move 105 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X X O X . . . . . . . X . . X . . | $$ | . O O O X O . O . , . . . . . X . O . | $$ | . X . X X O . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . | $$ | . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . O X O . | $$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . X B . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . X . O O X O X . . . . | $$ | . . . O . O . O X X X O O X X O . . . | $$ | . . O X X . . O X X O X X X . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . X O . X O O X O O O X . . | $$ | . . X X . . . O . X O O O X . , O . . | $$ | . . . . X O . O X X X O X X . O . . . | $$ | . . . X O . . . X O O O X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

The move above lacks fighting spirit. I think I should still play ko.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$ Position at move 105 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X X O X . . . . . . . X . . X . . | $$ | . O O O X O . O . , . . . . . X . O . | $$ | . X . X X O . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . | $$ | . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . O X O . | $$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . B . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . X . O O X O X . . . . | $$ | . . . O . O . O X X X O O X X O . . . | $$ | . . O X X . . O X X O X X X . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . X O . X O O X O O O X . . | $$ | . . X X . . . O . X O O O X . , O . . | $$ | . . . . X O . O X X X O X X . O . . . | $$ | . . . X O . . . X O O O X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Otherwise, it's too easy on white - and white made big corner profit later.

...

You play 1 below and White starts the ko with 2. You know that White is going to play 'a' as the first ko threat, so you need at least two threats. What are they?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc Plasying the ko $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X X O X . . . . . . . X . . X . . | $$ | . O O O X O . O . , . . . . . X . O . | $$ | . X . X X O . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . | $$ | . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . O X O . | $$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . X 2 1 . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . X . O O X O X a . . . | $$ | . . . O . O . O X X X O O X X O . . . | $$ | . . O X X . . O X X O X X X . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . X O . X O O X O O O X . . | $$ | . . X X . . . O . X O O O X . , O . . | $$ | . . . . X O . O X X X O X X . O . . . | $$ | . . . X O . . . X O O O X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Kirby · **#268**

ez4u wrote:

The real reason to defend the corner is not that Black gains a lot of points by capturing the two stones. It is that there is a cut shown below with the double hane of 'a', 'c'. Even if Black defends that cut, there is still the possibility that invading later into the gap between the two-stone pillar at Q11 and the shimari in the lower right corner will threaten Black's eyes. This is especially important because, as Shaddy pointed out, White can cut on the left with a play at 'd'. (Note that the marked Black stone was a big mistake and should have been played at 'e' to make the cut more difficult and less threatening.) As mentioned in my previous post, currently you do not seem to even be looking at these aspects of the game and your play is out of balance at the moment.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc Position at move 73 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . O . O . . O X X . X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O . O X O X . X X O . . . 1 2 . . | $$ | . . X O . O O X X O O O . O . X O . . | $$ | . . X , . X O O O X X . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . X . X O . . . . O O X . X X O . | $$ | . . . . . X d B . X X . . . . X O O . | $$ | . . O . O X . O X . . . O . b a . . . | $$ | . . . . O X . e . O . . . . c . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Thanks, Dave. To be clear about the balance comment, as applied to this situation, are you saying that I am not considering non-tactical implications?

For example, here, the cut that I could have in the future to potentially eliminate eyes?

Perhaps I should play, keeping in mind that not everything can be read out in the immediate situation, aiming for future possibilities?

Edit: How is the current view self-centered? I'm not sure I follow 100%.

Kirby · **#269**

I played a game against KGS 1d today. Finally, I broke my losing streak. I don't think I've fixed the "balance" in my game, as ez4u pointed at - I don't quite understand all of the nuances. But anyway, this game doesn't really feel like a won game, because I made it very risky.

My review is shown below. I have to go to a meeting shortly, so I do not have time to post diagrams, yet. I will aim to do that a bit later today.

Kirby · **#270**

Learning points.

Position 1

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$ Position at move 30 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . 1 O . . . . . O . . . . X . . O . . | $$ | . X . O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . | $$ | . . . , X . . . . , . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Both of the moves above seem slow. After :b1:

, maybe I could tenuki.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$ Position at move 30 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . X O . . . . . O . . . . X . . O . . | $$ | . X . O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . | $$ | . . . , X . . . . , . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Position 2

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$ Position at move 42 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | O X O . . . . . O . . . . X . . O . . | $$ | . X O O . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . X X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . | $$ | . . . , X . . . . , . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . W . X . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I had a plan behind the white move above, but it was a single-variation plan. In other words, I had tunnel vision.

I think it's simpler to just extend on the left. Seems bigger.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$ Position at move 42 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | O X O . . . . . O . . . . X . . O . . | $$ | . X O O . X . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . X X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . | $$ | . . . , X . . . . , . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Position 3

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$ Position at move 84 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . | $$ | O X O . . . . . O . . X X X . X O . . | $$ | . X O O X X X . . , O O O . . O O . . | $$ | . O X X X O X O . . . . . X X . . . . | $$ | . O X . O O O . O . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . X X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . W . . . . . . . . . O X X . | $$ | . O . . . . . O . . . . . . . O O X . | $$ | . . O , X X . . . , . . . O . O X . . | $$ | . O X X . O O . O . X . X X O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Aji keshi. I think it's bigger to just move out.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$ Position at move 84 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . | $$ | O X O . . . . . O . . X X X . X O . . | $$ | . X O O X X X . . , O O O . . O O . . | $$ | . O X X X O X O . . . . . X X . . . . | $$ | . O X . O O O . O . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . X X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . X . W . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . | $$ | . O . . . . . O . . . . . . . O O X . | $$ | . . O , X X . . . , . . . O . O X . . | $$ | . O X X . O O . O . X . X X O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Position 4

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$ Position at move 104 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . | $$ | O X O . . . . . O . . X X X . X O . . | $$ | . X O O X X X . . , O O O . . O O . . | $$ | . O X X X O X O . . . . . X X . . . . | $$ | . O X . O O O . O . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . X X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . X O X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | O . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X X X O . . . . . . . . . O X X . | $$ | . O . . . . . O . . . . . . . O O X . | $$ | . . O , X X . . . , O . . O . O X . . | $$ | . O X X . O O . O O X X X X O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . W X O X . . B . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

The marked white move above seems really slow. Given the marked black move, it's hard to consider pressuring black much.
And it's also hard to see white getting attacked that much if I move out into the center.

Still, I think I should play something toward the center.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$ Position at move 104 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . | $$ | O X O . . . . . O . . X X X . X O . . | $$ | . X O O X X X . . , O O O . . O O . . | $$ | . O X X X O X O . . . . . X X . . . . | $$ | . O X . O O O . O . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . X X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . X O X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | O . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . O X . W . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X X X O . . . . . . . . . O X X . | $$ | . O . . . . . O . . . . . . . O O X . | $$ | . . O , X X . . . , O . . O . O X . . | $$ | . O X X . O O . O O X X X X O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X O X . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Position 5

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$ Position at move 135 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . | $$ | O X O . . . . . O . . X X X . X O . . | $$ | . X O O X X X . . , O O O . . O O . . | $$ | . O X X X O X O . . . . . X X . . . . | $$ | . O X . O O O . O . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . X X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . X O X . . . . . , . . . . . X O X . | $$ | . O X X . . X W . . . . . X . X X O . | $$ | O . O X X X . X O . . . X . O O X O . | $$ | . . O . . O X O . . . . X O . . X O . | $$ | . O X X X O O . . . . . X X O O X X . | $$ | . O . . . . . O . . . . X O . O O X . | $$ | . . O X X X . . . , O . . O . O . O . | $$ | . O X X . O O . O O X X X X O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O X O X . . X X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I think that this move was played too hastily. I think it's fine to just play solidly.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$ Position at move 135 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . | $$ | O X O . . . . . O . . X X X . X O . . | $$ | . X O O X X X . . , O O O . . O O . . | $$ | . O X X X O X O . . . . . X X . . . . | $$ | . O X . O O O . O . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . X X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . X O X . . . . . , . . . . . X O X . | $$ | . O X X . . X . . . . . . X . X X O . | $$ | O . O X X X . X O . . . X . O O X O . | $$ | . . O . . O X O W . . . X O . . X O . | $$ | . O X X X O O . . . . . X X O O X X . | $$ | . O . . . . . O . . . . X O . O O X . | $$ | . . O X X X . . . , O . . O . O . O . | $$ | . O X X . O O . O O X X X X O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O X O X . . X X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Position 6

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$ Position at move 162 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O X . . . . . X . . . . . X X O . | $$ | O X O . . . . . O . . X X X . X O . . | $$ | . X O O X X X . . , O O O . . O O . . | $$ | . O X X X O X O . O . . . X X . . . . | $$ | . O X . O O O O O X X . W . . O . . . | $$ | . X X . . X O X X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X X O O . X . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . X O . . . O . O X . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . X O X . . . . . O . . . . . X O X . | $$ | . O X X . . X O O . . . . X . X X O . | $$ | O . O X X X X X O . O . X . O O X O . | $$ | . . O . . O X O X X . . X O . . X O . | $$ | . O X X X O O O . . . . X X O O X X . | $$ | . O . . . . . O . X X . X O . O O X . | $$ | . . O X X X . . . O O . . O . O . O . | $$ | . O X X . O O . O O X X X X O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O X O X . . X X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I think the marked white stone is an overplay, given that I need to consider the life of my large group in the center.

Probably, I should just reduce from the other side:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$ Position at move 162 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O X . . . . . X . . . . . X X O . | $$ | O X O . . . . . O . . X X X . X O . . | $$ | . X O O X X X . . , O O O . . O O . . | $$ | . O X X X O X O . O . . . X X . . . . | $$ | . O X . O O O O O X X . . . . O . . . | $$ | . X X . . X O X X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X X O O . X . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . X O . . . O . O X . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . X O X . . . . . O . W . . . X O X . | $$ | . O X X . . X O O . . . . X . X X O . | $$ | O . O X X X X X O . O . X . O O X O . | $$ | . . O . . O X O X X . . X O . . X O . | $$ | . O X X X O O O . . . . X X O O X X . | $$ | . O . . . . . O . X X . X O . O O X . | $$ | . . O X X X . . . O O . . O . O . O . | $$ | . O X X . O O . O O X X X X O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O X O X . . X X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

---

I was lucky this game that I didn't die. It got to be a crisis after I made two weak groups. This happened because I was too excited to move into the center, and got cut off (Position 5).

Learning points:
1. Consider the safety of my own groups.
2. Don't play a move just because it works well in one particular variation that I read. Play because it will work well even when my opponent resists.
3. Try harder to play the biggest move in the opening.

Kirby · **#271**

Another loss.

Here's my review.

Kirby · **#272**

Some learning points.

Position 1

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$ Position at move 31 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X O X X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X O X O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

In the game I pincered. Probably wiser to simply answer.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$ Position at move 31 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X O X X X . . | $$ | . . . . . W . . . . . X X O X O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Position 2

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$ Position at move 68 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . W . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . X X . X . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . X X . X . X O | $$ | . O . O O O . O . , . . X O X X X O . | $$ | . . . O X . . X X . . X X O X O O . . | $$ | . . . O . X . . . . . . O O O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This is probably an overplay. White is losing, but I don't think it's the right way to play. Maybe trying to aid the territorial balance?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$ Position at move 68 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . O , . . W . . O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . X X . X . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . X X . X . X O | $$ | . O . O O O . O . , . . X O X X X O . | $$ | . . . O X . . X X . . X X O X O O . . | $$ | . . . O . X . . . . . . O O O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I'm not sure, but the move in the game seemed bad. The game is already bad after the bottom left corner, but I don't know where to do better, since I had reason for each of those moves.

Position 3

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$ Position at move 74 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . O . W . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . X X . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O X . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . O X X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . X X . X . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . X X . X . X O | $$ | . O . O O O . O . , . . X O X X X O . | $$ | . . . O X . . X X . . X X O X O O . . | $$ | . . . O . X . . . . . . O O O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Greedy. I may be behind, but I need to help the weak group.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$ Position at move 74 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . X X . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O X . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . W . O . . . . . | $$ | . O X X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . X X . X . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . X X . X . X O | $$ | . O . O O O . O . , . . X O X X X O . | $$ | . . . O X . . X X . . X X O X O O . . | $$ | . . . O . X . . . . . . O O O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Position 4

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W Moves 110 to 110 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . W X . . . | $$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . O , X . O . . O . O . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . X O X X X . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O O X X . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O X . . O O . . . O X X O . O . . | $$ | . . O X . X . . X X X X O O X . . . . | $$ | . O X X . X O O . O . O . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . O . . O . . . X . . | $$ | . . O X . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . X X . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . X X . X . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . X X . X . X O | $$ | . O . O O O . O . , . . X O X X X O . | $$ | . . . O X . . X X . . X X O X O O . . | $$ | . . . O . X . . . . . . O O O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I just assumed that this move was sente. But it's not clear that it is. I certainly didn't read out a way to make it work effectively in the game, even though I lived by luck.

---

Overall:
1. Even though I am behind, don't be greedy - I'll get further behind.
2. Something went wrong in the bottom left corner - I don't know exactly what. But it wasn't good. Probably should have just not pincered.
3. Often, helping weak group is more urgent than defending territory.

Uberdude · **#273**

Kirby wrote:

2. Something went wrong in the bottom left corner - I don't know exactly what. But it wasn't good. Probably should have just not pincered.

I think pincer is ok direction, but perhaps low and close is wrong given black's influence, how about 2 space high? But the real problem was you tenukid c10 and that area was still urgent, how about one space jump? And I don't much like your choice of tenuki to r7 as it makes r12 invasion harder and that seems a bigger area to invade to me. Also the c12 invasion I don't like as black is happy to connect and make a nice wall with d12 attach (b14 slide was available so that was a small area anyway). If you do invade there I think it's got to be high at d12 to split and attack d14.

Bill Spight · **#274**

A couple of comments.

I agree with Uberdude, the 2 space high pincer looks better.

:w34:

Why not F-03?

:w36:

I agree with Uberdude, the bottom left is urgent. Given Black's surrounding strength, I think that sacrificing the pincer is OK. So how about a jump to B-04?

:w68:

Why do you think that you are behind? (Yeah, you are not getting komi, but this is no time to panic.

) A simple one space jump to O-13 is good. It reduces the Black moyo, expands the White moyo, and threatens to invade the right side. A bread and butter move.

Yes, your weak group is important.

W110: Yes, on the top side G-18 looks bigger. And what about the left side (B-14)?

Kirby · **#275**

Thanks for the comments. The two-space pincer is a good idea, and I especially think it's a good point about choosing the wrong invasion to start with.

Kirby · **#276**

Chalked up another loss today. I had a winning streak earlier, so I haven't quite demoted in rank. I'll try to turn it around before that happens.

Anyway, here's my review.

Kirby · **#277**

Some learning points.

Position 1

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B Moves 15 to 15 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . O O . O B . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . . X . . O . . O . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I don't have much of an excuse here. I've seen this shape before. But I responded incorrectly here:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B Moves 15 to 15 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . O O . O 1 . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X 2 . X . . O . . O . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

If I go the route of protecting the corner, I should play here:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B Moves 15 to 15 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . 3 6 . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . O O 4 O 1 7 . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . 2 X . . O . . O . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . 0 9 . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

My opponent may deviate along the way, and it's complicated. But I think it's safe to say that :w2:

, above, is better than what I played - it puts more pressure on his stones, and doesn't think only of the corner stone - which still had aji, anyway!

Also, the variation I thought was bad, has been played by pros (locally), so maybe I should have considered that, too.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B Moves 15 to 15 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . O O . O 1 . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X 3 . X 4 . O . . O . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Position 2

At the time, I didn't realize the corner aji when I played here:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W Moves 22 to 22 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . O O X O X . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X O X X W . O . . O . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I've already messed up, so maybe it's OK, but I could also consider helping the corner aji, since I've already messed up:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W Moves 22 to 22 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . O O X O X . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X O X X . . O . . O . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Black is better for sure, but maybe I can recover better than in the game.

Position 3

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B Moves 57 to 57 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . W . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O X . . X . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . O X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O . X . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | O X X X X O . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . O O O X O X X X , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . O . O X X O X O O . O . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O X . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I played as above in the game, but I think it's clear that this is better:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B Moves 57 to 57 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . W . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O X . . X . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . O X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O . X . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | O X X X X O . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . O O O X O X X X , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . O . O X X O X O O . O . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O X . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Position 4

Finally, my "ko threat" here was obviously a hallucination:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W Moves 76 to 76 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . O . . . O X O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O X . . X X X . X . O . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O X . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . X . O O . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . O X . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O . X . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | O X X X X O . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . O O O X O X X X , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . O . O X X O X O O . O . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O X . W O O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I was silly to imagine he'd save the single stone as here:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W Moves 76 to 76 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . O . . . O X O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O X . . X X X . X . O . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O X . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . X . O O . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O X . 4 . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . O X 5 3 X O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O 6 X . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | O X X X X O . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . O O O X O X X X , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . O . O X X O X O O . O . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O X 7 1 O O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Of course, black can simply take my stones, still :-S

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W Moves 76 to 76 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . O . . . O X O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O X . . X X X . X . O . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O X . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . X . O O . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O X . 4 . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . O X 5 3 X O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O . X 6 O X X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | O X X X X O . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . O O O X O X X X , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . O . O X X O X O O . O . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O X . 1 O O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Game over.

---

Overall:
1. Mostly, I made joseki mistakes and reading mistakes this game, I feel.
2. Position 3 was the wrong idea. I should attack while making profit, as in the variation I showed. The value I obtained by taking away some eyespace was nothing compared to what he got by attaching to my stone.

ez4u · **#278**

One extra issue that you seem to have currently is that your counting looks unreliable. You keep claiming that you are behind in situations that do not look that bad to my eye. However, I am extremely poor at counting (reliably) so I needed a little support in my opinion. Since GoGoD + kombilo wouldn't do the trick this time, I turned to my other advisor, Crazy Stone 2013. I loaded up the 2-stone game that you introduced in post #258, set the analysis time to 8 hours (max), and let it rip overnight. Of course CS barfed on the variations or something (I hadn't realized this was an issue :blackeye:

) so all I did was waste electricity for 8 hours. :scratch:

Undeterred, I stripped the variations out and ran it again. This produced two interesting issues rather than one. However, both relate to counting so we will "count" it a win-win.

Attached is the analysis printout from CS. In the sgf file the first time that you specifically comment on White being ahead is at move 158, "After this, I felt I'd be OK if I simply saved the group. However, after counting, it seemed that white was already ahead :-(

He shrunk my corner a lot, and I didn't have any major points except for the capture. After the top right corner, things certainly turned around."

When we look at the CS analysis, however, CS has the crazy idea that Black is winning by 10 points. Hmmm... Exactly why you differ so much would be hard to analyze but be aware that you seem to be way too pessimistic these days. :tmbdown:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm158 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . X O . . | $$ | . . . X O O . . . . . X X . X . X O . | $$ | X X X X O X . . . . X . O X . X X O . | $$ | O O O O X O . O . , . . O X X X . O . | $$ | O X X X X O . . . . . . O O . . O . . | $$ | O X . . . X . O . . . X X X O O O X O | $$ | O O X X . . . . . . . . . . X O X O . | $$ | O . O . . 1 . . . . . . . X X X X O . | $$ | . O . . O . . . . . . . . . O . X X . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . X . O O X O X O . . . | $$ | . . . O . O . O X X X O O X X O . . . | $$ | . . O X X . . O X X . X X X . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . X O . X . . X O O O X . . | $$ | . . X X . . . O . X . . . X . , O . . | $$ | . . . . X O . O X X X . X X . O . . . | $$ | . . . X O . . . X . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X X X . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

The second situation and the second comment is easier to analyze. At 179 you wrote, "I connected, but am still way behind. After he connected K12, his group doesn't have many weaknesses. After counting, I estimate black is around 10 points behind."

Nevertheless, CS persists in this idea that Black is 12 points ahead. But notice this is down from a 25 (!) point lead before your previous move. CS was extremely critical of White 177 and was like a little boy bouncing up and down in his seat wanting Black to play 178 at E10. What happens if Black does so and White then cuts at J10?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm177 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . X O . . | $$ | . . . X O O O . . . . X X . X . X O . | $$ | X X X X O X X . . . X . O X . X X O . | $$ | O O O O X O . O . , . . O X X X . O . | $$ | O X X X X O . O . . . . O O . . O . . | $$ | O X . . . X X O . . . X X X O O O X O | $$ | O O X X . X O . . . . . . . X O X O . | $$ | O . O . O X O . O O . . . X X X X O . | $$ | . O . . O X X X X O . . . . O . X X . | $$ | . . . . 2 . . . 3 . . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . X 1 O X . . . . O O O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . X . O O X O X O . . . | $$ | . . . O a O . O X X X O O X X O . . . | $$ | . . O X X . . O X X . X X X . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . X O . X . . X O O O X . . | $$ | . . X X . . . O . X . . . X . , O . . | $$ | . . . . X O . O X X X . X X . O . . . | $$ | . . . X O . . . X . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X X X . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Black jumps down to C10 and a big 'Whoops!' goes out from all the kibitzers. Black threatens to capture the entire upper left with B10 next so White has to take that point. If Black simply plays 3, White seems to be too busy. If 4 to save the two stones, Black plays 5 in sente and cuts with 7. If White continues along the left side instead, Black can just pick up the two stones and be safe. Meanwhile, Black is still threatening to cut at 7 and 'a'.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . X O . . | $$ | . . . X O O O . . . . X X . X . X O . | $$ | X X X X O X X . . . X . O X . X X O . | $$ | O O O O X O . O . , . . O X X X . O . | $$ | O X X X X O . O . . . . O O a . O . . | $$ | O X . . . X X O . . . X X X O O O X O | $$ | O O X X . X O . . . . . . . X O X O . | $$ | O . O . O X O . O O . . . X X X X O . | $$ | . O 4 . O X X X X O . . . . O . X X . | $$ | 6 2 1 . X . . . O , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . 5 3 . . X O O X . . . . O O O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . X . O O X O X O . . . | $$ | . . . O 7 O . O X X X O O X X O . . . | $$ | . . O X X . . O X X . X X X . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . X O . X . . X O O O X . . | $$ | . . X X . . . O . X . . . X . , O . . | $$ | . . . . X O . O X X X . X X . O . . . | $$ | . . . X O . . . X . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X X X . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Meanwhile, the other "counting" issue comes at the end of the game.

Kirby wrote:

Some learning points...

Position 4

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$ Position at move 199 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . X O . . | $$ | . . . X O O O B X . . X X . X . X O . | $$ | X X X X O X X O . . X . O X . X X O . | $$ | O O O O X O . O . X X O O X X X . O . | $$ | O X X X X O . O O O O X O O O . O . . | $$ | O X . . . X X O O X X X X X O O O X O | $$ | O O X X . X O O X X . . . . X O X O . | $$ | O . O . O X O X O O . . O X X X X O . | $$ | . O . . O X X X X O O . O . O . X X . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X . X . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . X O O X . . . . O O O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . X . O O X O X O . . . | $$ | . . . O . O . O X X X O O X X O . . . | $$ | . . O X X . . O X X . X X X . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . X O . X . . X O O O X . . | $$ | . . X X . . . O . X . . . X . , O . . | $$ | . . . . X O . O X X X . X X . O . . . | $$ | . . . X O . . . X . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X X X . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

In the game, I played above. I didn't have enough liberties...

This is quite an interesting situation to study. White played 1-3 below and the question arises how many liberties does each side have?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . X O . . | $$ | . . . X O O O B X . . X X . X . X O . | $$ | X X X X O X X O . . X . O X . X X O . | $$ | O O O O X O . O . X X O O X X X . O . | $$ | O X X X X O . O O O O X O O O . O . . | $$ | O X . . . X X O O X X X X X O O O X O | $$ | O O X X . X O O X X . . 2 1 X O X O . | $$ | O . O . O X O X O O . . O X X X X O . | $$ | . O . . O X X X X O O . O . O . X X . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X . X . . . , . 3 . | $$ | . . . . . X O O X . . . . O O O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . X . O O X O X O . . . | $$ | . . . O . O . O X X X O O X X O . . . | $$ | . . O X X . . O X X . X X X . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . X O . X . . X O O O X . . | $$ | . . X X . . . O . X . . . X . , O . . | $$ | . . . . X O . O X X X . X X . O . . . | $$ | . . . X O . . . X . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X X X . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

For Black to capture the White stones, Black plays eight times (twice inside the eye) and White replies twice (once inside the eye). White has six liberties.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc Black plays twice inside the eye and White plays once. $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . X . . B B B . . . . . X . . X O . . | $$ | . . . X O O O X X . . X X . X . X O . | $$ | X X X X O X X O B . X . O X . X X O . | $$ | O O O O X O W O B X X O O X X X . O . | $$ | O X X X X O B O O O O X O O O . O . . | $$ | O X . . . X X O O X X X X X O O O X O | $$ | O O X X . X O O X X . . X . X O X O . | $$ | O . O . O X O X O O . . O X X X X O . | $$ | . O . . O X X X X O O . O . O . X X . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X . X . . . , . O . | $$ | . . . . . X O O X . . . . O O O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . X . O O X O X O . . . | $$ | . . . O . O . O X X X O O X X O . . . | $$ | . . O X X . . O X X . X X X . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . X O . X . . X O O O X . . | $$ | . . X X . . . O . X . . . X . , O . . | $$ | . . . . X O . O X X X . X X . O . . . | $$ | . . . X O . . . X . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X X X . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

For White to capture Black, White plays six times and Black replies once. Basically Black has five liberties. It is Black to play but we might count that Black loses. There are complications however. Note the Black stone marked with a square. This is in just the right place to permit Black to win.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . X O . . | $$ | . . . X O O O X X . . X X . X . X O . | $$ | X X X X O X X O . . X . O X . X X O . | $$ | O O O O X O . O . X X O O X X X . O . | $$ | O X X X X O . O O O O X O O O . O . . | $$ | O X . . . X X O O X X X X X O O O X O | $$ | O O X X . X O O X X W W X B X O X O . | $$ | O . O . O X O X O O . . O X X X X O . | $$ | . O . . O X X X X O O . O W O W X X W | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X . # . . . , W O . | $$ | . . . . . X O O X . . . . O O O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . X . O O X O X O . . . | $$ | . . . O . O . O X X X O O X X O . . . | $$ | . . O X X . . O X X . X X X . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . X O . X . . X O O O X . . | $$ | . . X X . . . O . X . . . X . , O . . | $$ | . . . . X O . O X X X . X X . O . . . | $$ | . . . X O . . . X . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X X X . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Black 1 threatens to capture 4 stones so White answers with 2. Now however, White has to play 3 stones instead of 2 around L12. Naturally if White tried to avoid this by completely filling the liberties from the other direction first, Black would not connect at O13. Black is winning and can capture White six liberties to six!

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc One extra liberty $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . X O . . | $$ | . . . X O O O X X . . X X . X . X O . | $$ | X X X X O X X O . . X . O X . X X O . | $$ | O O O O X O . O . X X O O X X X . O . | $$ | O X X X X O . O O O O X O O O . O . . | $$ | O X . . . X X O O X X X X X O O O X O | $$ | O O X X . X O O X X W W X B X O X O . | $$ | O . O . O X O X O O W 1 O X X X X O . | $$ | . O . . O X X X X O O 2 O W O W X X W | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X . # . . . , W O . | $$ | . . . . . X O O X . . . . O O O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . X . O O X O X O . . . | $$ | . . . O . O . O X X X O O X X O . . . | $$ | . . O X X . . O X X . X X X . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . X O . X . . X O O O X . . | $$ | . . X X . . . O . X . . . X . , O . . | $$ | . . . . X O . O X X X . X X . O . . . | $$ | . . . X O . . . X . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X X X . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

But Black can do better. White always starts the capturing race by filling the liberty at R10. Black should play there first (which actually happened in the game), forcing White to answer at S9 and gaining one liberty - Black now already has six!. Next Black should atari at T12, preventing White from easily connecting underneath. White has to answer or Black captures two stones and kills the upper right corner. Now Black might play E10 ('a' below)! The magic of M12 works even if we wait for White to play first (e.g. 6-8)! :-)

One final complication is that White can start a ko with 'b' through 'd' below if Black plays 'a'. As a result, Black is probably happy to simply hane at 5, as in the game, and win "quietly".

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc Two extra liberties = tenuki $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . X c b 5 d . . . . . . X . . X O . . | $$ | . . . X O O O X X . . X X . X . X O . | $$ | X X X X O X X O 9 . X . O X . X X O . | $$ | O O O O X O . O . X X O O X X X . O . | $$ | O X X X X O . O O O O X O O O . O 4 . | $$ | O X . . . X X O O X X X X X O O O X O | $$ | O O X X . X O O X X . 6 X . X O X O . | $$ | O . O . O X O X O O . 7 O X X X X O 3 | $$ | . O . . O X X X X O O 8 O . O . X X . | $$ | . . . , a . . . . X . # . . . , 1 O . | $$ | . . . . . X O O X . . . . O O O . 2 . | $$ | . . . O . . . . X . O O X O X O . . . | $$ | . . . O . O . O X X X O O X X O . . . | $$ | . . O X X . . O X X . X X X . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . X O . X . . X O O O X . . | $$ | . . X X . . . O . X . . . X . , O . . | $$ | . . . . X O . O X X X . X X . O . . . | $$ | . . . X O . . . X . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X X X . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Edit: add 9 in last diagram.

Kirby · **#279**

@ez4u: I have relatives over at the moment for the holiday season, so I don't have the resources at the moment to respond in depth. I will do so once they've left.

But I simply have to take the time to say that I am impressed with your efforts to assist in both the counting analysis, and your review in general - for a game that you didn't even play! Very impressive! :salute:

ez4u · **#280**

Kirby wrote:

@ez4u: I have relatives over at the moment for the holiday season, so I don't have the resources at the moment to respond in depth. I will do so once they've left.

But I simply have to take the time to say that I am impressed with your efforts to assist in both the counting analysis, and your review in general - for a game that you didn't even play! Very impressive! :salute:

Once I get going on an interesting position I can't stop. It's because I can never do this kind of analysis on my own lost games - embarrassment, shame, or whatever. So I never learn from my own mistakes! As the Beatles used to say, I need a little help from my friends. Happy Holidays to you and your family.

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