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 Post subject: Re: Kirby's Study Journal
Post #461 Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2015 1:38 am 
Oza
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Kirby wrote:
What I thought after reading Bill's post was this:
...
So if black atari the other way:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Then play 'a'
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 8 6 0 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 7 3 4 9 . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . a 2 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

...

This is the variation that I thought worked for Black. Next grip the stone on the bottom left and Black is undamaged IMHO. White has about twenty points in the corner but Black' positions are solid and meanwhile Black has played twice in a row in the upper left.

_________________
Dave Sigaty
"Short-lived are both the praiser and the praised, and rememberer and the remembered..."
- Marcus Aurelius; Meditations, VIII 21


This post by ez4u was liked by: Kirby
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 Post subject: Re: Kirby's Study Journal
Post #462 Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2015 4:28 am 
Honinbo

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ez4u wrote:
Kirby wrote:
What I thought after reading Bill's post was this:
...
So if black atari the other way:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 8 6 0 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 7 3 4 9 . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . a 2 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

...

This is the variation that I thought worked for Black. Next grip the stone on the bottom left and Black is undamaged IMHO. White has about twenty points in the corner but Black' positions are solid and meanwhile Black has played twice in a row in the upper left.


I agree that at this point if White captures the three Black stones and then Black secures his group, the exchange is approximately even. But capturing the Black stones is a large yose. Better to switch back to attacking the Black group in the bottom left. Depending upon how the fighting goes, White has the option of capturing the Black stones if need be.

I gave what I thought was the most likely sequence of play, but upon reconsideration I think that you are right, this is better for Black. :)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O W . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

_________________
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.


This post by Bill Spight was liked by: Kirby
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 Post subject: Re: Kirby's Study Journal
Post #463 Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2015 5:03 am 
Oza
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Bill Spight wrote:
ez4u wrote:
blah blah blah...


I agree that at this point if White captures the three Black stones and then Black secures his group, the exchange is approximately even. But capturing the Black stones is a large yose. Better to switch back to attacking the Black group in the bottom left. Depending upon how the fighting goes, White has the option of capturing the Black stones if need be.

I gave what I thought was the most likely sequence of play, but upon reconsideration I think that you are right, this is better for Black. :)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O W . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

White ends up a little uncomfortable here. If White simply pushes once and then goes back and captures with 4, the White center stones are floating with bad shape - Black can attach at 'b' to exploit White's shortage of liberties. Plus the descent at 'b' or the hane next to it become sente. But it's a three stone game so maybe White will pull it off. :rambo:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X W . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . 4 X W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X W W a . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . X 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O 1 3 . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . b . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

_________________
Dave Sigaty
"Short-lived are both the praiser and the praised, and rememberer and the remembered..."
- Marcus Aurelius; Meditations, VIII 21


This post by ez4u was liked by: Kirby
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 Post subject: Re: Kirby's Study Journal
Post #464 Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2015 8:55 am 
Honinbo

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ez4u wrote:
Bill Spight wrote:
ez4u wrote:
blah blah blah...


I agree that at this point if White captures the three Black stones and then Black secures his group, the exchange is approximately even. But capturing the Black stones is a large yose. Better to switch back to attacking the Black group in the bottom left. Depending upon how the fighting goes, White has the option of capturing the Black stones if need be.

I gave what I thought was the most likely sequence of play, but upon reconsideration I think that you are right, this is better for Black. :)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O W . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

White ends up a little uncomfortable here. If White simply pushes once and then goes back and captures with 4, the White center stones are floating with bad shape - Black can attach at 'b' to exploit White's shortage of liberties. Plus the descent at 'b' or the hane next to it become sente. But it's a three stone game so maybe White will pull it off. :rambo:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X W . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . 4 X W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X W W a . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . X 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O 1 3 . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . b . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X W . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . 4 X W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X W W . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . X 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O 1 3 . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


:b4: loses a tempo in the fight, allowing :w5:. IMO, White has gained a bit on par. If he had extended to D-10 instead of playing the hane at C-10, he would have done about as well, but Black could have played on automatic. With the hane Black had to make the cut, then offer a sacrifice, and then, when the sacrifice was refused, judge whether and when to capture the two White stones. The hane made the game more difficult for Black than the nobi, which was my point. :)

_________________
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.


This post by Bill Spight was liked by: Kirby
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 Post subject: Re: Kirby's Study Journal
Post #465 Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2015 10:40 am 
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Note to self: Don't give ez4u 3 stones!

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be immersed

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 Post subject: Re: Kirby's Study Journal
Post #466 Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2015 9:35 pm 
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Report Card for Week of April 13th

* Go Problems During Commute (OK!)
* Pro Game Study (Fail!)

Last week, I continued to do go problems during my commute, however, I failed to memorize three pro games, as I wanted to. I approximately memorized one game, which I posted earlier.

---

Well, this week is a new week. I'll have the same goal. I will try again. I went over this pro game. As before, when I noticed I screwed up, I moved back, and started a new variation. I remembered up until move 156.



---

Let's hope that this week is a better week than next week for actual go study. I still haven't played another game yet on KGS, because I am afraid. I have never won a game as 2d, and there is a fear that I will lose this game, then start another losing streak.

With this pro game, and the other go problems I'm doing, I hope to overcome that fear by Tuesday, when I usually try to play a game on KGS.

So... Here's to better study, and to overcoming fear by Tuesday! :salute: Cheers!

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 Post subject: Re: Kirby's Study Journal
Post #467 Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 9:44 am 
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Back to 1d. I guess I should have expected it, given the pressure I was putting on this. Actually, I drifted back down to 1d on KGS before playing this game, so I didn't get to try a game with 2d rank.

My fear was somewhat realized in this game, as I played pretty poorly. I lost against KGS 1k. I fear that this might be the start of a losing streak. I hope I can stop it soon.

Anyway, here is my game, which I reviewed myself.


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Post #468 Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 9:55 am 
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Problem Areas
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$ Position at move 26
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . W . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O O . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X X O . . . X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I think the marked move protects the weakness alright, but the left side seems more urgent, given the investment I've put into it. His move hurt a lot.

I like this way better:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$ Position at move 26
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O . W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O O . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X X O . . . X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


He might invade on the right, but I think white's left side is working together nicely.

Position 2
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$ Position at move 34
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . X . . . O O . |
$$ | . W . O . . O O . , . . . . X , X X . |
$$ | . . X . . X X O . . . X . O . X . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I think the marked move is *not* good. Black already has a stone in place on the left, and I just make a weak-ish group. Black's group is not that weak. So I lose out.

Position 3
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$ Position at move 58
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . a O W . . X . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . O X . O X . . . . . . X . . . O O . |
$$ | . O X O . O O O . , . . . . X , X X . |
$$ | . . X . . X X O . . . X . O . X . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I think this is not good, given the aji at 'a'. It's true that I didn't get captured during the game, but he was able to use the aji to squeeze me well. I think he got more than I did by not connecting.

I should just play simply:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$ Position at move 58
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . W O . . . X . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . O X . O X . . . . . . X . . . O O . |
$$ | . O X O . O O O . , . . . . X , X X . |
$$ | . . X . . X X O . . . X . O . X . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Position 4
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$ Position at move 74
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O . O . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O O X X . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O X W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . X X . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . O X . O X . . . . . . X . . . O O . |
$$ | . O X O . O O O . , . . . . X , X X . |
$$ | . . X . . X X O . . . X . O . X . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


The marked move, above, felt bad before I played it. But I played it anyway, feeling black was ahead. I think black is ahead, but I think I should take a more relaxed approach, instead of making a weak group.

Gotta remember: Weak group == no points on other parts of the board.

Instead, I like this:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$ Position at move 74
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O . O . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O O X X . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . W . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . X X . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . O X . O X . . . . . . X . . . O O . |
$$ | . O X O . O O O . , . . . . X , X X . |
$$ | . . X . . X X O . . . X . O . X . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I can threaten a big shape, and see if I can make something happen - instead of fighting in black's area.

Position 5

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$ Position at move 130
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O . O . . . . W . X . . . . . |
$$ | O X X O O O X X . , . . . . . X . X . |
$$ | . X O X X X X X . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | O X O O O O X . . . . . . . . O O X O |
$$ | . O X O . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . O X . X . . X . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X , . . O . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O X . . O O X . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O . X X O . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O O O X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . X X O O X . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . O X . O X . . X . . . X . . . O O . |
$$ | . O X O . O O O X O . . . . X , X X . |
$$ | . . X O X X X O O X . X . O . X . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X O . O X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


The marked move is another example of the same thing. I just dive in. Maybe I can live, yes.

Instead, maybe this:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$ Position at move 130
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O . O . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | O X X O O O X X . , . . W . . X . X . |
$$ | . X O X X X X X . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | O X O O O O X . . . . . . . . O O X O |
$$ | . O X O . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . O X . X . . X . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X , . . O . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O X . . O O X . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O . X X O . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O O O X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . X X O O X . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . O X . O X . . X . . . X . . . O O . |
$$ | . O X O . O O O X O . . . . X , X X . |
$$ | . . X O X X X O O X . X . O . X . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X O . O X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


But weak group on top == no points on right!!! Why can't I get this through my head?



Position 6

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$ Position at move 160
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . X . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O . O X . O W O . X X . . . . |
$$ | O X X O O O X X . X X . . . . X . X . |
$$ | . X O X X X X X . . . O . X . . X X . |
$$ | O X O O O O X . O O . . . . . O O X O |
$$ | . O X O . X X O O X . O . X . . . O . |
$$ | . O X . X . O X X . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X . . X O . . X . O . X . X . . . |
$$ | . O X , . . O . O , . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . O X . . O O X . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O . X X O . X . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . O O O X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . X X O O X . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . O X . O X . . X . . . X . . . O O . |
$$ | . O X O . O O O X O . . . . X , X X . |
$$ | . . X O X X X O O X . X . O . X . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X O . O X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


The marked move gives away maybe my last potential chance of something happening. I don't know 100% that I can kill him, but I've gotta try this way:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$ Position at move 160
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . X . . . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O . O X . O . O . X X . . . . |
$$ | O X X O O O X X . X X W . . . X . X . |
$$ | . X O X X X X X . . . O . X . . X X . |
$$ | O X O O O O X . O O . . . . . O O X O |
$$ | . O X O . X X O O X . O . X . . . O . |
$$ | . O X . X . O X X . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X . . X O . . X . O . X . X . . . |
$$ | . O X , . . O . O , . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . O X . . O O X . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O . X X O . X . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . O O O X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . X X O O X . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . O X . O X . . X . . . X . . . O O . |
$$ | . O X O . O O O X O . . . . X , X X . |
$$ | . . X O X X X O O X . X . O . X . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X O . O X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


---

Learning Points
1. Biggest thing is to recognize, again, that weak group means I won't get points on other points of the board. I created weak groups multiple times.
2. When I fall behind, instead of making weak group, try to make a big shape - try to catch up. Wait for him to give a weakness, and then pounce.
3. Play biggest place in the opening.

---

I hope this isn't the start of another losing streak.

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Post #469 Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 12:08 pm 
Lives in sente
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You're playing many thoughtless moves like 20 and 26 and 30, which appear to threaten followups but actually do nothing.


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Post #470 Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 12:21 pm 
Honinbo

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Shaddy wrote:
You're playing many thoughtless moves like 20 and 26 and 30, which appear to threaten followups but actually do nothing.


I can't really disagree, especially with moves 20 and 30. Move 26 was more of a defensive move than a threat - I considered knight's move slide into the corner, but thought he would just attach.

But I like your comment. It kind of suggests that the answer to my problems might be simpler than I thought: I need to be more thoughtful. I need to think!

Obvious, I guess, but apparently lacking in my game.

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Post #471 Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 12:33 pm 
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What was your plan with :w14:?

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Post #472 Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 12:35 pm 
Honinbo

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Bill Spight wrote:
What was your plan with :w14:?


I thought, since he had the kosumi in the bottom right corner, there was potential for a good shape on the bottom for black.
By pressing black down, I thought this would limit his potential.

Wrong idea?

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Post #473 Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 1:34 pm 
Judan

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Kirby wrote:
Bill Spight wrote:
What was your plan with :w14:?


I thought, since he had the kosumi in the bottom right corner, there was potential for a good shape on the bottom for black.
By pressing black down, I thought this would limit his potential.

Wrong idea?


Typical "Kirby the destroyer" reasoning. How about trying to be "Kirby the creator" and build your own moyo with the other press at d7. Black's bottom side is nothing special, in fact black's bottom side doesn't even exist yet.


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Post #474 Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 2:09 pm 
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Uberdude wrote:
Kirby wrote:
Bill Spight wrote:
What was your plan with :w14:?


I thought, since he had the kosumi in the bottom right corner, there was potential for a good shape on the bottom for black.
By pressing black down, I thought this would limit his potential.

Wrong idea?


Typical "Kirby the destroyer" reasoning. How about trying to be "Kirby the creator" and build your own moyo with the other press at d7. Black's bottom side is nothing special, in fact black's bottom side doesn't even exist yet.


Very interesting. I think you are correct in your assessment about me having a "destroyer" type attitude. For example, I am afraid when my opponent makes a large framework. I am also reluctant to give them points. So I can very much see your point in observing that I am a "destroyer".

However, I suspect that becoming a "creator" is something that is difficult to change into overnight.

So while I see the problem, I am not sure how to "become a creator".

Still, it's something interesting to think about.

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Post #475 Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 2:51 pm 
Judan

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Yes, changing one's mindset and style will not happen overnight. But if you think when playing a move, "Is this destroying my opponent's potential" and the answer is yes see if you can find another reasonable looking move that is a creating your own potential type of move. Try playing that one instead even if you don't like it so much and see how the game develops. Then show us :) .


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Post #476 Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 9:00 pm 
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Kirby wrote:
Problem Areas
Instead, I like this:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$ Position at move 74
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O . O . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O O X X . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . W . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . X X . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . O X . O X . . . . . . X . . . O O . |
$$ | . O X O . O O O . , . . . . X , X X . |
$$ | . . X . . X X O . . . X . O . X . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Kirby: Long time no talk...
One point i would like to teach you.
IMO, below is better than your move above.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$ Position at move 74
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O . O . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O O X X . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . W . . . |
$$ | . O X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . X X . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . O X . O X . . . . . . X . . . O O . |
$$ | . O X O . O O O . , . . . . X , X X . |
$$ | . . X . . X X O . . . X . O . X . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Post #477 Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 10:32 pm 
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Kirby wrote:
Bill Spight wrote:
What was your plan with :w14:?


I thought, since he had the kosumi in the bottom right corner, there was potential for a good shape on the bottom for black.
By pressing black down, I thought this would limit his potential.

Wrong idea?


1) It strikes me as heavy, making it difficult to sacrifice the two stones in the bottom left.

2) It does not do much to make territory for White.

3) There are easier ways to limit Black's potential on the bottom side.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm14
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . X 2 . X . . . 1 . . 3 . . X . a . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


For instance, :w14: threatens to play at 15. If now :b15:, :w16: makes a base and threatens to slide to "a".

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm14
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . a . . 1 . . b . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Alternatively, the wedge at :w14: leaves "a" and "b" miai. White also gets the last big play of the opening, assuming that the top and left sides are miai.

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Post #478 Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 10:55 pm 
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Magicwand wrote:
Kirby wrote:
Problem Areas
Instead, I like this:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$ Position at move 74
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O . O . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O O X X . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . W . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . X X . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . O X . O X . . . . . . X . . . O O . |
$$ | . O X O . O O O . , . . . . X , X X . |
$$ | . . X . . X X O . . . X . O . X . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Kirby: Long time no talk...
One point i would like to teach you.
IMO, below is better than your move above.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$ Position at move 74
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O . O . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O O X X . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . W . . . |
$$ | . O X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . X X . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . O X . O X . . . . . . X . . . O O . |
$$ | . O X O . O O O . , . . . . X , X X . |
$$ | . . X . . X X O . . . X . O . X . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


We usually agree about these things, but not here. The keima is more solid, but I think that the high ogeima is appropriate, especially considering that White is behind. :)

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At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

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 Post subject: Re: Kirby's Study Journal
Post #479 Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 3:57 am 
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Bill Spight wrote:
The keima is more solid, but I think that the high ogeima is appropriate, especially considering that White is behind. :)


The high play doesn't work well with S16 next, while the keima does. The high play works better, I think, with R16 next, which is a fighting resource. If White is actually going to have to invade at 3-3 to keep the territorial balance, then neither is so great: probably the high play has some merit.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W Hypothetical
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . . . 7 . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O . O . . . . . . X a . 1 5 . |
$$ | . X X O O O X X . , . . . . . X 2 3 . |
$$ | . X . X X X . . . . . . . . . . 6 4 . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . 8 O . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . W . 9 b . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . c . . . |
$$ | . O X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . X X . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . O X . O X . . . . . . X . . . O O . |
$$ | . O X O . O O O . , . . . . X , X X . |
$$ | . . X . . X X O . . . X . O . X . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


For example up to :w9: here, as a local sequence. It seems that Black would play a rather than block, considering what is to the left. The exchange of Black b and White c seems OK for White. Black would probably be looking for more severity than this.

So I think Bill's assessment stands up.

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 Post subject: Re: Kirby's Study Journal
Post #480 Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 10:39 am 
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Bill Spight wrote:
We usually agree about these things, but not here. The keima is more solid, but I think that the high ogeima is appropriate, especially considering that White is behind. :)

after careful reconsideration, i cannot agree with you because of group on the bottom. Once black attacks the white group on the bottom... spiderweb influence will not hold. For that reason i like solid moves.

remember that i said it is better than previous, it doesnt mean that it is the optimal.
My feeling is that white has to play bottom to secure it's two eyes.

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The greater the unknown"

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