So, I ordered the first four books of the Elementary Go Series . I've been thoroughly impressed so far, but I do have a slight issue. I don't like doing problems. This carries over from my earlier chess playing days (which are intertwined at this stage with my Go playing days).

I realize that most everyone knows that this is how to improve, but I find doing problems extremely boring. This attitude about doing chess problems has made it's way, a long time ago, into my playing. Now, it's doing the same thing to my Go. It's part of the reason why I haven't improved much in Chess for a while. I rely on my intuition a lot to make a move in Chess. I was playing Go last night, and the intuition part of my brain was making almost instantaneous moves.

Part of the reason that I started playing Go was to learn to visualize properly, so that I could play both games with intuition and calculation.

How do I shed the notion that doing problems is boring, and how do I keep my intuition from taking over in games? Any ideas?

What do you guys do to make the problems fun?

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My plan to become an SDK is here.

Something that I've heard a few times - including in the great book I bought in Paris, "The Treasure Chest Enigma" - is that a go player's quest is a quest for truth. It's not about playing a move that tricks your opponent, or that you know doesn't really work - or one that you don't really know about at all.

It is the job of a go player to seek the truth on the go board, to the best of their ability. This takes a lot of thinking and a lot of work. But it can also be very rewarding.

I am surely not an expert on this, and have lately been playing many lazy moves. But the quest for truth is admirable. And go problems are one way to practice doing this...

I hope that I can follow my own advice more now...

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be immersed

I guess that I didn't totally address what you were asking. Maybe it would be more to the point of what you wanted if I elaborated on why finding truth can be rewarding.

I guess the answer to this might vary from person to person. I think that it can give you a sense of accomplishment, for one. I think I'm a bit of a control freak. So it is somewhat satisfying when I feel that I understand the truth of a situation or position, and that I am in control.

Other people may have different reasons, I suppose.

But you can think of it in your games. You can have, for example, two situations:
A.) You play on intuition, without thinking about what the opponent could really do. You win sometimes, you lose sometimes. It's kind of a black box. In the extreme case, if it's totally random, you might as well flip a coin - heads I win, tails I lose. You might say that you use your intuition to guess the result of the flip.

B.) You play by seeking the truth of the situation - what the opponent can possibly do. You read out a situation in its entirety. This may be infeasible for the entire board for amateurs, but in a local position, let's say that you can know, with certainty, the worst that could happen to you.

I guess you can ask yourself which position you'd like to be in. To me, it seems a bit boring to be in situation "A", even if you get lucky.

I doubt anybody is in either of the two extremes, but I think that situation "B" is more desirable - and more fun!

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be immersed

Even if you want to play mainly intuition based you need to gain that intuition somehow. And solving life and death problems(be they artificial tsumego or ingame) by reading them out is a good way to build that intuition.
Massgaming can also help, but I think tsumego is more efficient. But going over stronger players games and reading situations when they arise in you games could be enough too.

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Sanity is for the weak.

I also do not like problems. But I force myself to do them because I know it is the most efficient way to improve reading. 'Tesuji' is a nice problem book. For Life & Death I would rather recommend '1001 Life and Death problems' as the book from the Elementary Go Series gets too difficult after a few chapters. Another problem book I can really recommend is 'Making Good Shape'.

What I do to motivate myself for doing problems is that I remind myself how important reading skill is in Go. It is a nice feeling to be able to read a variation easily in a game. The other thing is that reading ability only improves slowly and so you should try to constantly do something for it.

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Stay out of my territory! (W. White, aka Heisenberg)

I didn't like doing problems until I learned how to do them -- and it also helped that I got a little stronger so that doing problems actually made more sense to me.

The hardest part for me was trying to figure out the best move for my opponent. Switching hats like that for every other move yielded so many variations that is was completely overwhelming at first. And I'm still learning how to weed out the variations not worth following.

Several keys for me were: finding the vital point, recognizing killing shapes. finding the best move for both sides (not just the point I wanted my opponent to play )

But I suspect as a former chess player, you may already know some of this.

Anyway, I found that doing problems was a good way for me to pass the time on my bus ride to and from work each day -- and it helped me improve my game a little.

Did you ever think about becoming a priest?


Come on, Kirby - it is not a quest for truth ... it is all about winning.



And yeah, like xed_over, I do the problems while I commute to and from work. If I would take the car, I am pretty sure I would not find or rather take the time to do problems. So you might think about using public transportation more often.

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Stay out of my territory! (W. White, aka Heisenberg)

Tsumego surely is a good way to become stronger. But if you hate every second of it you are just punishing yourself. There are alternatives. Try replaying pro games. You'll get to see really good play and some sequences and shapes will pop up over and over again. That is good go. You will start to get a feel for what good go looks like. If you like it, go for it.

Also, pick up Tesuji. The problems are probably above your level (I found them hard even at 8k) but just looking at the answers opens up a whole new world. It's good go in a condensed form. But note that looking at the answers only applies to tesuji problems and not life and death. Expose yourself to better play and it will rub off.

...or you could just man up and work on your tsumego books

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FusekiLibrary, an opening library.
SGF converter tools: Wbaduk NGF to SGF | 440 go problems | Fuseki made easy | Tesuji made easy | Elementary training & Dan level testing | Dan Tutor Shortcut To Dan

Hey,

I didn't really like Tsumego much either until I was c. 7 kyu and read Kageyama's Lessons in the Fundamentals. Before then, my moves were really - eye up a good lookin' spot and shoot at it, and hope it's good. Now I read. Kageyama suggests learning to read with ladders. Starting with very short and obvious "there - there -there - there - there - capped" and gradually make them longer and add tricks and intrigue. This gets you used to reading, which is the essence of tsumego (more than "spot the tesuji").


Edit: He notes, and I've certainly also noticed; you can read ladders very quickly from training with them, without trailing your mouse or finger across the board) .. which is cool.

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Revisiting Go - Study Journal
My Programming Blog - About the evolution of my go bot.

I could never motivate myself to do chess problems back when I played. I found them too fake and artificial. Maybe if I had done more I would have noticed a benefit - I don't know. But what I do know is that Go problems aren't like that. They really do help you improve - maybe not immediately, but within a short time of doing them. I recommend you do problems that are not too hard for you - ones that you only have to think about for less than a minute to find the correct point, and only have to think about for a bit longer to verify that your solution is correct. I believe that verifying that your solution is correct rather than just checking the answer right away is an important step in the process.

You may also want to study common corner shapes - some useful ones to study are the L group, the L+1 group, the L+2 group, and the J group. Studying these shapes can really help you develop your intuition in killing and living situations. Plus, if you can eventually remember the status of these shapes just by looking at them, it will help speed up your reading of a lot of corner situations dramatically. You'll also have a huge leg up on all the other 14 kyus, as few others will know anything about these shapes at all .

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We don't know who we are; we don't know where we are.
Each of us woke up one moment and here we were in the darkness.
We're nameless things with no memory; no knowledge of what went before,
No understanding of what is now, no knowledge of what will be.

I can't take credit for the phrases, myself. Like I said, I've heard about this "quest for truth" a few times.

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be immersed

I had exactly the same problem. "Tesuji" was my first problem book, but I never could get myself to really sit down and actually do these problems.

I think the main reason was that they were just too hard. And I was 6 or 7 kyu at the time.
What finally solved my problem was getting a much easier problem book. Suddenly, doing problems was really fun!

Unfortunately I can't tell you the name of the book, since I can't read it (it's in Japanese). It seems to be a book intended for children, with problems classified for 9 kyu up to 1 kyu. These are Japanese ranks, so it's easier than it sounds. And it's certainly a lot easier than the problems from "Tesuji" or "Life and Death".

I've attached a photo of the book, perhaps someone able to read Japanese can tell us what it is

do it with friends, more fun.

Join tchan's tesuji time on kgs

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长考出臭棋.

Igo 9kyu kara 1kyu minna no tsumego -- 9kyu to 1kyu go problems for every one

I have that book. I like it.

One of the things that makes doing tsumego more enjoyable is doing problems that are appropriate for your level. If you beat your brains out doing problems too hard for you can get discouraged quickly.

One nice thing about the above book (and a number of other Japanese tsumego books) is that it gives an estimated kyu level for each problem, which can help you figure out your level and focus on problems appropriate to that level. It also gives you some idea of the progress you are making (and a sense of accomplishment) as you move into the more difficult problems.

Some other good Japanese tsumego pocketbooks in the 9 kyu to 1 kyu/1 dan range (Japanese ranks) that state the level of the problems are:

http://www.seibidoshuppan.co.jp/cgi-bin ... ookcd=3804

http://www.7netshopping.jp/books/detail/-/accd/18722532

http://booklog.jp/users/asamibf/archives/4818205109

I used to have the same problem as you, and to a certain extent I still do. I can't sit down and do a problem book, or even more than a couple of problems from one; it bores and irritates me. I have found, though, that having GoProblems.com open in a tab of my browser, with a set of problems (I usually have 50 problems it thinks range between 1k and 7k, from all types of problems, randomly sorted), which I visit to do a problem or two in "down time" or while I'm struggling for a word, or while something's compiling, etc., means I end up doing really quite a lot of problems. My Go has benefited from it a lot.

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My European rating.

Unfortunately, I have to take my car to work. Public transportation isn't an option since I don't live within walking distance from any stops. I'm going to have to make time to do problems. Good idea, though.



Nice to know that it's not just me who doesn't like problems. Those two books that you mention are definitely on my list to get. I'm not scared of difficulty right now, though I do reserve the right to change this view in the future .



I have Tesuji. I want to get better so problems above my level are okay for now (and the bonus that it's good Go doesn't hurt either). Replaying pro games is a good idea. Every once in a while, I'll go through some games pretty fast. I'm assuming I actually have to take the time to try and understand the moves.



Might just have to do this.

Also, might have to read Kageyama's fundamentals as Loons suggests.



I think Life and Death covers these, and if not good idea. I know that Life and Death definitely covers the L-group.

On goproblems.com, that might be a possibility.

Now for the question concerning the Japanese books. I don't know any Japanese so how are the solutions presented in Arabic numbers or Japanese numbers? Basically, how easy are they to figure out?



What time is that?

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My plan to become an SDK is here.

not really a matter of being "scared of the difficulty". I believe its actually recommended to practice doing mostly problems that you might otherwise consider beneath your level.

Of course you'll want to stretch your muscles with the harder ones too. But be sure you can do the easy ones -- both the correct answer as well as understanding the wrong answers too -- as quickly as possible.

why don't you like problems ?

and more importand WHAT DO YOU LIKE ABOUT GO?

(only if i know this i can give advice)

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Promotor and Librarian of Sensei's Library

Play fighting games until you get sick of getting beaten by stronger players? I don't know if forcing yourself to do problems is efficient (I don't think the mind learns things well that you don't want to learn).

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I am John. John-I-Am.