Go Video Game

hailthorn011 · #1

Alright, so this Fall I'm going to ECPI to learn how to become a video game developer. There are a lot of different types of game ideas that I've toyed around with, but there's been one game I'd love to make: A video game involving Go. Why, you might ask? I've noticed a considerable lack of console Go games, even plain simulation. As a matter of fact, the only Go game I know of is the Hikaru no Go games on the GBA.

Anyway, there are two methods I've figured I could do this:

1. Simple simulation. Basically, just a virtual Go board that you can play with friends and family or play online with people across the world. If bots were included, I'd probably try to use an existing program, with permission of course.

2. Kinda sorta make it story based. This isn't ironed out. I'd have to think of a few ways to implement this, but being an American, I kind of want to show it from the US standpoint. This way it would appeal to the American demographic. However, the problem here is that the US doesn't have a professional system.

All in all, I guess 1 would be the easiest one to make. But 2 would be more fun than 1 if done right. Any opinions on this idea?

fwiffo · #2

Batoo might be easier to market to the video game demographic. That's sorta the role it has in Korea. Of course, since batoo and go are mostly the same rules, the game could have both.

hailthorn011 · #3

fwiffo wrote:

Batoo might be easier to market to the video game demographic. That's sorta the role it has in Korea. Of course, since batoo and go are mostly the same rules, the game could have both.

Well, I have far more experience with Go than Batoo. It might be difficult for me to add in a game I've never played before.

CSamurai · #4

hailthorn011 wrote:

Alright, so this Fall I'm going to ECPI to learn how to become a video game developer. There are a lot of different types of game ideas that I've toyed around with, but there's been one game I'd love to make: A video game involving Go. Why, you might ask? I've noticed a considerable lack of console Go games, even plain simulation. As a matter of fact, the only Go game I know of is the Hikaru no Go games on the GBA.

Anyway, there are two methods I've figured I could do this:

1. Simple simulation. Basically, just a virtual Go board that you can play with friends and family or play online with people across the world. If bots were included, I'd probably try to use an existing program, with permission of course.

2. Kinda sorta make it story based. This isn't ironed out. I'd have to think of a few ways to implement this, but being an American, I kind of want to show it from the US standpoint. This way it would appeal to the American demographic. However, the problem here is that the US doesn't have a professional system.

All in all, I guess 1 would be the easiest one to make. But 2 would be more fun than 1 if done right. Any opinions on this idea?

Well, story based is certainly more fun, but you run into the problem that widely available public license go bots (Like Gnugo) are not terribly strong. While this may be OK depending on your market (the HnG games are fairly weak.) it certainly seems to me to detract from the value of the game. Imagine a shooting game that once you figure out how the AI behaves, you can never ever die. You'd quickly grow bored.

At the same time, on a standard computer processor, you're fairly limited on strong bot choices.

So here's a novel suggestion:

Create a board simulator which players can play against each other, locally, or if on a smart fone or the like, connect via local net.
Then, create a story mode which involves Tsumego, of various levels. Take care to find a public source for tsumego which is not a copyrighted collection, or find a tsumego collection which will allow you to use it for the game. This way, you don't have to program an AI, and you create a fun and interesting way to draw people into problems for Go.

Just my thoughts

CSam

Kirby · #5

I have a story based playstation game about go, which is based off of Hikaru no Go:
http://item.rakuten.co.jp/surugaya-a-too/141397-1/
It is pretty cheesy.

They do a lot of talking, and occasionally you get to play a game against the bot, which seems to be about as strong as GNU go.

They also sometimes have some multiple choice questions for go problems. I actually don't know how it ends, because I didn't finish it.

It is pretty cheesy.

hailthorn011 · #6

Kirby wrote:

I have a story based playstation game about go, which is based off of Hikaru no Go:
http://item.rakuten.co.jp/surugaya-a-too/141397-1/
It is pretty cheesy.

They do a lot of talking, and occasionally you get to play a game against the bot, which seems to be about as strong as GNU go.

They also sometimes have some multiple choice questions for go problems. I actually don't know how it ends, because I didn't finish it.

It is pretty cheesy.

Well, if you'd like to go back and finish it, I'd be willing to help. Well, once I get more technical knowledge.

hailthorn011 · #7

CSamurai wrote:

hailthorn011 wrote:

Alright, so this Fall I'm going to ECPI to learn how to become a video game developer. There are a lot of different types of game ideas that I've toyed around with, but there's been one game I'd love to make: A video game involving Go. Why, you might ask? I've noticed a considerable lack of console Go games, even plain simulation. As a matter of fact, the only Go game I know of is the Hikaru no Go games on the GBA.

Anyway, there are two methods I've figured I could do this:

1. Simple simulation. Basically, just a virtual Go board that you can play with friends and family or play online with people across the world. If bots were included, I'd probably try to use an existing program, with permission of course.

2. Kinda sorta make it story based. This isn't ironed out. I'd have to think of a few ways to implement this, but being an American, I kind of want to show it from the US standpoint. This way it would appeal to the American demographic. However, the problem here is that the US doesn't have a professional system.

All in all, I guess 1 would be the easiest one to make. But 2 would be more fun than 1 if done right. Any opinions on this idea?

Well, story based is certainly more fun, but you run into the problem that widely available public license go bots (Like Gnugo) are not terribly strong. While this may be OK depending on your market (the HnG games are fairly weak.) it certainly seems to me to detract from the value of the game. Imagine a shooting game that once you figure out how the AI behaves, you can never ever die. You'd quickly grow bored.

At the same time, on a standard computer processor, you're fairly limited on strong bot choices.

So here's a novel suggestion:

Create a board simulator which players can play against each other, locally, or if on a smart fone or the like, connect via local net.
Then, create a story mode which involves Tsumego, of various levels. Take care to find a public source for tsumego which is not a copyrighted collection, or find a tsumego collection which will allow you to use it for the game. This way, you don't have to program an AI, and you create a fun and interesting way to draw people into problems for Go.

Just my thoughts

CSam

Well, there are a few ideas around that. If I can't get license a strong program, I figured if I could find some strong players, I could develop my own bots with their assistance. Always assuming, of course, strong players would be willing to help. Hopefully, I'll have reached at least 1 Kyu by the time I graduate so I'll have more knowledge to put into it. It's going to be tricky, but it'll be worth it if it appeals to those already playing Go, and perhaps even interest new people into playing.

SpongeBob · #8

hailthorn011 wrote:

...I figured if I could find some strong players, I could develop my own bots with their assistance. Always assuming, of course, strong players would be willing to help.

It seems you are underestimating the difficulty and efforts involved in developing a strong computer program.

Chew Terr · #9

I've mentioned it before, but I always thought that it would be fun to have something like an RPG, where regular fights are actually tsumego (You'd have to let the player pick their rank at the beginning, or auto-adjust based on success rate). Boss fights could be 9x9 or 13x13 for big bosses. The boss of the game itself could be fought over 19x19. Actually, you could also use oddly-shaped boards and such, also, assuming the bot could handle it (which I guess would be a big problem). But the tsumego, at least, would be easy. Money earned could buy weapons and armor that do things like 'hints' or 'second tries'. Perhaps you could even let experience points be spent to buy different boards, stones, and themes.

usagi · **#10**

hailthorn011 wrote:

Alright, so this Fall I'm going to ECPI to learn how to become a video game developer. There are a lot of different types of game ideas that I've toyed around with, but there's been one game I'd love to make: A video game involving Go. Why, you might ask? I've noticed a considerable lack of console Go games, even plain simulation. As a matter of fact, the only Go game I know of is the Hikaru no Go games on the GBA.

Anyway, there are two methods I've figured I could do this:

1. Simple simulation. Basically, just a virtual Go board that you can play with friends and family or play online with people across the world. If bots were included, I'd probably try to use an existing program, with permission of course.

2. Kinda sorta make it story based. This isn't ironed out. I'd have to think of a few ways to implement this, but being an American, I kind of want to show it from the US standpoint. This way it would appeal to the American demographic. However, the problem here is that the US doesn't have a professional system.

All in all, I guess 1 would be the easiest one to make. But 2 would be more fun than 1 if done right. Any opinions on this idea?

Do you know what would be really cool?

A manga-style choose your own adventure, where in order to progress through the story you need to do a lot of tsumego. But here's the rub. The tsumego start out REALLY easy and as you progress you SLOWLY get into dan level tsumego.

Hahaha. So the problem is how to work presenting the tsumego into the story line. Well, a good storyteller could invent anything. Alien languages. A magic book. And so on.

But it should be really anime like. I'm thinking gunbuster. Project a-ko even. TGhe good stuff.. you could also throw in some kimagure orange road for good measure. Your going to want to have the typical ditzy highschool girl for example, and your going to want to edge in the cat teeth, you know, the whole ploy, maybe with a tiger (chao hu) image on the backpack. Then you will want the tuxedo rose style guy, but with a twist -- make him gay, for example, but openly gay like utena is openly lesbian. Yes and have some twisted secret spiritual ritual with swords and roses. Actually on second thought scrap all that utena stuff. It just doesn't have any real staying power.

-

hailthorn011 · **#11**

SpongeBob wrote:

hailthorn011 wrote:

...I figured if I could find some strong players, I could develop my own bots with their assistance. Always assuming, of course, strong players would be willing to help.

It seems you are underestimating the difficulty and efforts involved in developing a strong computer program.

Believe me, I understand it's incredibly difficult to make strong bots. I've read all about them. And, it's not so much that I'd like to have the strongest bot possible, because that would turn down a lot of beginner players. Those are the people I'm really trying to target: People who have never played before. However, I would still like to include stronger bots.

hailthorn011 · **#12**

Chew Terr wrote:

I've mentioned it before, but I always thought that it would be fun to have something like an RPG, where regular fights are actually tsumego (You'd have to let the player pick their rank at the beginning, or auto-adjust based on success rate). Boss fights could be 9x9 or 13x13 for big bosses. The boss of the game itself could be fought over 19x19. Actually, you could also use oddly-shaped boards and such, also, assuming the bot could handle it (which I guess would be a big problem). But the tsumego, at least, would be easy. Money earned could buy weapons and armor that do things like 'hints' or 'second tries'. Perhaps you could even let experience points be spent to buy different boards, stones, and themes.

That's kinda/sorta what I'm aiming for. The only thing is, I wanted it to be a story that exactly simulates the experiences a common Go player experiences from day one. I figure there could be some sort of arcade mode where you compete for national/international championships, ect. And of course, there would be an online mode to challenge people across the world. Sort of like KGS or wbaduk except built in to the game. However, your idea does sound rather interesting.

hailthorn011 · **#13**

usagi wrote:

hailthorn011 wrote:

Alright, so this Fall I'm going to ECPI to learn how to become a video game developer. There are a lot of different types of game ideas that I've toyed around with, but there's been one game I'd love to make: A video game involving Go. Why, you might ask? I've noticed a considerable lack of console Go games, even plain simulation. As a matter of fact, the only Go game I know of is the Hikaru no Go games on the GBA.

Anyway, there are two methods I've figured I could do this:

1. Simple simulation. Basically, just a virtual Go board that you can play with friends and family or play online with people across the world. If bots were included, I'd probably try to use an existing program, with permission of course.

2. Kinda sorta make it story based. This isn't ironed out. I'd have to think of a few ways to implement this, but being an American, I kind of want to show it from the US standpoint. This way it would appeal to the American demographic. However, the problem here is that the US doesn't have a professional system.

All in all, I guess 1 would be the easiest one to make. But 2 would be more fun than 1 if done right. Any opinions on this idea?

Do you know what would be really cool?

A manga-style choose your own adventure, where in order to progress through the story you need to do a lot of tsumego. But here's the rub. The tsumego start out REALLY easy and as you progress you SLOWLY get into dan level tsumego.

Hahaha. So the problem is how to work presenting the tsumego into the story line. Well, a good storyteller could invent anything. Alien languages. A magic book. And so on.

But it should be really anime like. I'm thinking gunbuster. Project a-ko even. TGhe good stuff.. you could also throw in some kimagure orange road for good measure. Your going to want to have the typical ditzy highschool girl for example, and your going to want to edge in the cat teeth, you know, the whole ploy, maybe with a tiger (chao hu) image on the backpack. Then you will want the tuxedo rose style guy, but with a twist -- make him gay, for example, but openly gay like utena is openly lesbian. Yes and have some twisted secret spiritual ritual with swords and roses. Actually on second thought scrap all that utena stuff. It just doesn't have any real staying power.

-

The problem with that is, I can't draw very well.

rubin427 · **#14**

Super simple game/toy idea:

digital pet/tomagotchi that tracks your progress on tsumego. The pet gets happy when you get your tsumego correct, but mocks you when you get them wrong.

If you go a few days without doing your tsumego, your pet could become ill or feint. Only extra tsumego would revive him/her/it/whaterver.

Later - to add story - you could do the whole pokemon "gotta catch 'em all" thing where new pets require additional tsumego to level up.

Hmm, maybe I should be making nerdy posts like this on an anonymous account?

Chew Terr · **#15**

rubin427 wrote:

Super simple game/toy idea:

digital pet/tomagotchi that tracks your progress on tsumego. The pet gets happy when you get your tsumego correct, but mocks you when you get them wrong.

If you go a few days without doing your tsumego, your pet could become ill or feint. Only extra tsumego would revive him/her/it/whaterver.

Later - to add story - you could do the whole pokemon "gotta catch 'em all" thing where new pets require additional tsumego to level up.

Hmm, maybe I should be making nerdy posts like this on an anonymous account?

Nerdy or no, I'd buy it =D

SpongeBob · **#16**

rubin427 wrote:

Super simple game/toy idea:

digital pet/tomagotchi that tracks your progress on tsumego. The pet gets happy when you get your tsumego correct, but mocks you when you get them wrong.

If you go a few days without doing your tsumego, your pet could become ill or feint. Only extra tsumego would revive him/her/it/whaterver.

Later - to add story - you could do the whole pokemon "gotta catch 'em all" thing where new pets require additional tsumego to level up.

Hmm, maybe I should be making nerdy posts like this on an anonymous account?

Honestly, this could add some motivation to the should-be-daily-tsumego thing. Thumbs up.

Chew Terr · **#17**

Not even a bad idea as a website. Just kind of an incentive to keep up with tsumego. Back to Kirby's 'I have to study' thread, the harder aspects like tsumego would be more fun if you wrapped it in other toys and games.

CnP · **#18**

How about a 3d Go environment like Shotest Shogi, which connects to IGS?

http://www.shotestshogi.com/

CarlJung · **#19**

rubin427 wrote:

Super simple game/toy idea:

digital pet/tomagotchi that tracks your progress on tsumego. The pet gets happy when you get your tsumego correct, but mocks you when you get them wrong.

If you go a few days without doing your tsumego, your pet could become ill or feint. Only extra tsumego would revive him/her/it/whaterver.

Later - to add story - you could do the whole pokemon "gotta catch 'em all" thing where new pets require additional tsumego to level up.

Hmm, maybe I should be making nerdy posts like this on an anonymous account?

Quick, someone make a pet gogrinder plugin.

SpongeBob · **#20**

CnP wrote:

How about a 3d Go environment like Shotest Shogi, which connects to IGS?

http://www.shotestshogi.com/

And what about making it available on the Wii? :ugeek:

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