Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

crux · **#441**

Observers only.

Joaz Banbeck wrote:

...or like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X . . O X X . . | $$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X . O O X . . | $$ | X X O X . X O O X O X . O O . X O . . | $$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X . | $$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O O . | $$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X O 4 . | $$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O X O O X 1 3 . | $$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O 2 5 . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . 6 . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Doesn't the following work?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X . . O X X . . | $$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X . O O X . . | $$ | X X O X . X O O X O X . O O . X O . . | $$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X . | $$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O O 5 | $$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X c 6 b | $$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X O 4 7 | $$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O X O O X 1 3 . | $$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O 2 a . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Or, if 6 at a, then 7 at 6. If 6 at b, then 7 at c.

jts · **#442**

I've been on the edge of my seat for a week! :shock:

Violence · **#443**

>_> Just making sure, it's DanieltheSmith's turn, right?

daniel_the_smith · **#444**

Sorry! I was on vacation and now I need to think about this a bit.

daniel_the_smith · **#445**

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc 101A W48 B50 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O O . O X X . . . . C . O X X . . | $$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X . O O X . . | $$ | X X O X . X O O X O X . O O . X O . . | $$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X . . | $$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O . . B . . | $$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O . . . , . . . | $$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Situation is complicated, I have no clue. Gresil is correct, his move lets white capture something:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc 101A W46 B50 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O O . O X X . . . B . . O X X . . | $$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X . O O X . . | $$ | X X O X . X O O X O X . O O . X O 2 . | $$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X . . | $$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O 1 . | $$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O . . 3 . . | $$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O . . . , . . . | $$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

If this happens black can almost resign. Initially I thought we could sack the corner and take the side while attacking white's central group, but that requires a move that simultaneously defends the five black stones and threatens to take the two white ones-- and I don't see one that works.

Therefore Gresil's move can't be right (or I'm missing something).

I'm not very confident that I haven't missed something, so let's say I'm 75% sure it has to change. But I don't know what to. My change starts a very unclear capturing race:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc 101A W46 B50 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O O . O X X . . . . 1 . O X X . . | $$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X . O O X . . | $$ | X X O X . X O O X O X . O O . X O . . | $$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X . . | $$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O . . B . . | $$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O 2 3 . , . . . | $$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . 4 5 . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . 6 . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This would be great for us if we win it, but it's not clear to me that we will-- I think it depends on whether we can tenuki from the pushing in the middle first to make an eye on top.

So, math: if I don't change it and I think there's a 75% chance Violence will, that costs us 0 * .25 + 4 * .75 = 3 points on average; if I do change it and I think there's a 25% chance Violence will keep my change, that costs us 2 * .25 + 3 * .75 = 2.75 points on average. So I will change it. Obviously my probabilities are very rough, but if you mess with the math you can see that even if I'm certain Violence will reject my move it still just costs us 3 points. So if I'm 75% confident that the first move is wrong it should not hurt (on average) to change it.

Hm, I think 15% is probably a better estimate than 25%, but like I said it's a very rough estimate. We'll see. I won't be surprised if he changes it back even...

Violence · **#446**

Luke, here's my answer.

Rejected.

Oh dear...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc 101A W49 B50 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O O . O X X . . . B . . O X X . . | $$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X . O O X . . | $$ | X X O X . X O O X O X . O O . X O . . | $$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X . . | $$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O . . . . . | $$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O . . . , . . . | $$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I'll have to deduct picarats. Next time, try using a hint coin.

(Really hoping people get this reference.)

Magicwand · **#447**

Chew Terr · **#448**

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc 102A W49 B50 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X . . O X X . . | $$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X . O O X . . | $$ | X X O X . X O O X O X . O O . X O . . | $$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X . . | $$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O W . | $$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O . . . . . | $$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O . . . , . . . | $$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc 101A W49 B50 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . 3 . . . . | $$ | . X O O . O X X . . . B . . O X X . . | $$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X . O O X . . | $$ | X X O X . X O O X O X . O O . X O . . | $$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X 1 . | $$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O W . | $$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O . 4 2 . . | $$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O . . . , . . . | $$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This would be stellar. Let's look at other black responses. Perhaps 3 was bad.
[hide]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc 101A W49 B50 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . 6 . . . . | $$ | . X O O . O X X . . . B . . O X X . . | $$ | . X X O O X O X . X X C X . O O X 5 . | $$ | X X O X . X O O X O X 3 O O . X O 4 . | $$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X 1 . | $$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O W . | $$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O . . 2 . . | $$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O . . . , . . . | $$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I am starting to think that, with this black 1, we win the fight. Let's try a different one.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc 101A W49 B50 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O O . O X X . . . B . . O X X . . | $$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X 1 O O X . . | $$ | X X O X . X O O X O X . O O 2 X C 3 . | $$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X . . | $$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O W . | $$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X 5 6 . | $$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O . 4 7 9 . | $$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O . . . , 8 a . | $$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

As the scary ghosts on the ghost train say, there seems to be "no way out...". Wow, nerd reference.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc 101A W49 B50 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . b . . . . | $$ | . X O O . O X X . . . B . . O X X . . | $$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X d O O X . . | $$ | X X O X . X O O X O X a O O . X O c . | $$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X e . | $$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O W . | $$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O . . . . . | $$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O . . . , . . . | $$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

If Ba, then Wb. Or Wc, I suppose.
Else, if Bb, Wc
Else if Bd, the third hidden diagram.
Else if Bc, we do the ladder from the third hidden diagram without the forcing moves.
Else, if Be, the first two hidden diagrams should work.

Okay, I'm not seeing any downsides to this move. Here goes nothing!

FWIW, Violence, I get it!

edit: Edited to unmark the last black stone.

Joaz Banbeck · **#449**

I approve.

Then we have to kill their other group. Here's how we do it:

This much seems forced for both sides:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc 2 is the only way out for black $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X . . O X X . . | $$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X . O O X . . | $$ | X X O X . X O O X O X . O O . X O . . | $$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X . | $$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O O . | $$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O 2 . 1 . . | $$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O 5 4 3 6 . . . | $$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

and still forced:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X . . O X X . . | $$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X . O O X . . | $$ | X X O X . X O O X O X . O O . X O . . | $$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X . | $$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O O . | $$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X 2 O . . | $$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X 4 . . | $$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . 1 3 . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Here is where I think we win with a move that will surprise a few people ( note the crane's nest pattern that keeps threatening to materialize ) I just found it tonight:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X . . O X X . . | $$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X . O O X . . | $$ | X X O X . X O O X O X . O O . X O . . | $$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X . | $$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O O . | $$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X O . . | $$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X 1 . | $$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

There are two ways to go from here. The first variation looks like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X . . O X X . . | $$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X . O O X . . | $$ | X X O X . X O O X O X . O O . X O . . | $$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X . | $$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O O . | $$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X 2 3 . | $$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X O . . | $$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X 1 . | $$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O 4 6 . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . 5 . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

...and continues like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc if they play a, we play 6 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X . . O X X . . | $$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X . O O X . . | $$ | X X O X . X O O X O X . O O . X O . . | $$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X . | $$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O O . | $$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X X O . | $$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X O 1 . | $$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X O . | $$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O 2 . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 4 . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . a 5 . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . | $$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc we are ahead by one liberty $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X . . O X X . . | $$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X . O O X . . | $$ | X X O X . X O O X O X . O O . X O . . | $$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X . | $$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O O . | $$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X X O . | $$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X O O . | $$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X O . | $$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X 4 | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O X 3 | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . 1 O 2 | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . | $$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

It is all still forced:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc Using the hoshi to kill $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X . . O X X . . | $$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X . O O X . . | $$ | X X O X . X O O X O X . O O . X O . . | $$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X . | $$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O O . | $$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X X O . | $$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X O O . | $$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X O 1 | $$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X 3 | $$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X X | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O X 4 | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O O X | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X 2 | $$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . 5 . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

The other variation looks similar:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X . . O X X . . | $$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X . O O X . . | $$ | X X O X . X O O X O X . O O . X O . . | $$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X . | $$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O O . | $$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X O 5 . | $$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X 1 . | $$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O 2 4 . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . 3 6 . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This starts to look like a ko:

There is a nasty pitfall for us if we are not wary:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc white dies after black 4 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X . . O X X . . | $$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X . O O X . . | $$ | X X O X . X O O X O X . O O . X O . . | $$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X . | $$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O O 2 | $$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X O O . | $$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X O 4 | $$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 3 . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

...so we must play like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X . . O X X . . | $$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X . O O X . . | $$ | X X O X . X O O X O X . O O . X O . . | $$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X . | $$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O O 2 | $$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X 3 . 6 | $$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X O O 4 | $$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X O 5 | $$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 7 . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

So I think that the hane underneath is too early, and is better played like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc we still run them into the hoshi stone $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X . . O X X . . | $$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X . O O X . . | $$ | X X O X . X O O X O X . O O . X O . . | $$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X . | $$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O O . | $$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X O O . | $$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X O . | $$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 2 . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

...and this starts looking familiar.

I'ts getting late here, so I'm going to post without proofreading.

topazg · **#450**

I think Joaz is not counting the liberties on his other group well enough. Firstly Black will clearly capture rather than extend, so that he can squeeze properly, and how does White escape this (variation of earlier lines in discussion):

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc 102A W49 B50 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . 9 0 . . . . | $$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . 7 2 1 8 . . . | $$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X . 6 O X X . . | $$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X 3 O O X . . | $$ | X X O X . X O O X O X 5 O O 4 X . B . | $$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X . . | $$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O O . | $$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O . . W . . | $$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O . . . , . . . | $$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc 102A W49 B50 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . 1 X W 9 7 . . | $$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . X O 4 O 2 5 . | $$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X 3 O O X X . . | $$ | . X X O O X O X . X X . X X O O X . . | $$ | X X O X . X O O X O X X O O O X . X . | $$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X . . | $$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O O . | $$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O 8 6 O . . | $$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O . . . , . . . | $$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

shapenaji · **#451**

Approved

Chew Terr · **#452**

Joaz Banbeck · **#453**

Chew Terr wrote:

Gresil · **#454**

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc 103A W49 B50 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X . . O X X . . | $$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X . O O X . . | $$ | X X O X . X O O X O X . O O . X O . . | $$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X B . | $$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O O . | $$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O . . . . . | $$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O . . . , . . . | $$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

daniel_the_smith · **#455**

OK... I'm pretty sure that THIS time I know what I'm doing... Sorry, has to be this one.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc 103A W51 B51 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X . . O X X . . | $$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X . O O X . . | $$ | X X O X . X O O X O X . O O . X . B . | $$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X C . | $$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O O . | $$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O . . . . . | $$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O . . . , . . . | $$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I must have been tired last time, I now figured out what I missed (grrr). If white does what I said, we can win a capturing race. We get megacorner, white gets megawall.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc 103A W49 B50 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X . . O X X . . | $$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X 2 O O X . . | $$ | X X O X . X O O X O X . O O . X . B . | $$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X . . | $$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O O . | $$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O . . 1 . . | $$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O . . . , . . . | $$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Gresil's move fails because we lose a liberty:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc 103A W49 B50 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . 7 . . . . | $$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X . . O X X . . | $$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X 4 O O X 6 . | $$ | X X O X . X O O X O X . O O 5 X O 1 2 | $$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X B . | $$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O O . | $$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O . . 3 . . | $$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O . . . , . . . | $$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

topazg · **#456**

Joaz Banbeck · **#457**

Observers only:

daniel_the_smith wrote:

OK... I'm pretty sure that THIS time I know what I'm doing... Sorry, has to be this one.

I'm sure that Violence won't let this happen:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X . . O X X . . | $$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X . O O X . . | $$ | X X O X . X O O X O X . O O . X . B . | $$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X C . | $$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O O . | $$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X 2 3 . | $$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O . 1 4 . . | $$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O . . . , 5 . . | $$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This position bears an intriguing similarity to this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X . . O X X . . | $$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X . O O X . . | $$ | X X O X . X O O X O X . O O . X O . . | $$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X . | $$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O O . | $$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X O . . | $$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X 1 . | $$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

...which is described in the third hidden section of this post: viewtopic.php?p=45723#p45723

Violence · **#458**

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc 103A W52 B49 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X . . O X X . . | $$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X . O O X . . | $$ | X X O X . X O O X O X . O O . X O . . | $$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X B . | $$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O O . | $$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O . . . . . | $$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O . . . , . . . | $$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Joaz Banbeck · **#459**

What is the prisoner count? I'm thinking that it should be W52 B51.

Chew Terr · **#460**

I THINK the score is 52-49, but I don't know for sure. Correct me if I'm wrong, please! B had one too many points because they took back the capture. Going to keep reading this a bit more...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc 101A W49 B50 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . 6 . . . . | $$ | . X O O . O X X . . . B . . O X X . . | $$ | . X X O O X O X . X X C X . O O X 5 . | $$ | X X O X . X O O X O X 3 O O . X O 4 . | $$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X 1 . | $$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O W . | $$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O . . 2 . . | $$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O . . . , . . . | $$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Okay, here's the read I've got. If B plays anything that doesn't reduce our liberties, we just reduce their liberties inside the net.

Can they break out?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc 103A W49 B50 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X . . O X X . . | $$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X . O O X . . | $$ | X X O X . X O O X O X . O O . X O . . | $$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X . | $$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O O . | $$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O 1 7 W . . | $$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O 4 3 2 5 9 . . | $$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . 6 8 . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

More reading is required, and I have stuff to do. This is what I've got so far, though. If we can prevent them from breaking the net, we just win.

Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

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