The following is one corner of me vs a 3K on KGS today.
( There were only about 5 stones on the rest of the board. )

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bc
$$| . . . . . . . . . . .
$$| . . . , . . . . . , .
$$| . . . . . . . . . . .
$$| . . . . . . . . . . .
$$| . . . . . . . . . . .
$$| . . . . . . . . . . .
$$| . . . 1 . . . . . . .
$$| . . 4 5 . . . . . , .
$$| . 6 3 2 . . . . . . .
$$| . . 7 . . . . . . . .
$$| . . . . . . . . . . .
$$|-------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wcm9
$$| . . . . . . . . . . .
$$| . . . , . . . . . , .
$$| . . . . . . . . . . .
$$| . . . . . . . . . . .
$$| . . . . . . . . . . .
$$| . . . . . . . . . . .
$$| . 8 2 X . . . . . . .
$$| . 3 O X . . . . . , .
$$| . O X O 4 . . . . . .
$$| . 1 X 5 6 . . . . . .
$$| . . 7 . . . . . . . .
$$|-------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wcm17
$$| . . . . . . . . . . .
$$| . . . , . . . . . , .
$$| . . . . . . . . . . .
$$| . . . . . . . . . . .
$$| . . . . . . . . . . .
$$| . . . . . 4 . . . . .
$$| . X X X 3 . . . . . .
$$| . O O X 1 2 . . . , .
$$| . O . O X . . . . . .
$$| . O . O X . . . . . .
$$| . . O . . . . . . . .
$$|-------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wcm21
$$| . . . . . . . . . . .
$$| . . . , . . . . . , .
$$| . . . . . . . . . . .
$$| . . . . . . . . . . .
$$| . 8 6 4 2 . . . . . .
$$| . 7 5 3 1 X . . . . .
$$| 9 X X X O 0 . . . . .
$$| . O O X O X . . . , .
$$| . O . O X . . . . . .
$$| . O . O X . . . . . .
$$| . . O . . . . . . . .
$$|-------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wcm31
$$| . . . . . . . . . . .
$$| . . . , . . . . . , .
$$| . . . . . . . . . . .
$$| . . . . . . . . . . .
$$| . X X X X . 6 . . . .
$$| . O O O O X . . . . .
$$| O . . . O X . . . . .
$$| . O O . O X . . . , .
$$| . O . O X 1 2 . . . .
$$| . O . O X 3 4 . . . .
$$| . . O . 5 . . . . . .
$$|-------------------------[/go]

He got 22 points plus sente. I got a wall.
Who is better here? I think I am. He, of course, disagreed.

_________________
Help make L19 more organized. Make an index: https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5207

Maybe was slow:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$B
$$| . . . . . . . . .
$$| . . . . . . . . .
$$| . . X X . . . . .
$$| . O O X . 1 . . .
$$| . O B O X . . . .
$$| . O B O X . . . .
$$| . . O . . . . . .
$$|------------------[/go]

How about tenuki instead of ?

With only a few stones on the rest of the board? You are thick in all directions and he is sealed in. Looks like a huge success for black to me. I assume you went on to win, no?

_________________
Patience, grasshopper.

In last years EGC in Tampere, I got one of my games reviewed by a chinese 9p (Zhang Wendong) and there was a
very similar local (emphasis added) position. It was the result of a corner invasion during early midgame. He said that the corner is too big, good for white.
So, even in early midgame the big corner could be good enough for white, even though it was sealed in.

But of course it depends very very much on the overall boards position. Gettin sealed in on an empty board is probably much worse.

_________________
If you say no, Elwood and I will come here for breakfast, lunch, and dinner every day of the week.

Perhaps 36 should be solid, and then w has a less useful(?) peep. I think black is far, far ahead here, myself.

Edlee: I don't think Black should tenuki and leave that cutting point behind. Even though black is strong here, the cut feels somehow burdensome. Also, I would prefer to play your 1 one space higher.

I'd play this and take Black.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bc
$$| . . . . . . . . . . .
$$| . . . , . . . . . , .
$$| . . . . . . . . . . .
$$| . . . . . . . . . . .
$$| . . . . . . . . . . .
$$| . . . . . . . . . . .
$$| . . . 1 . . . . . . .
$$| . . 4 5 . . . . . , .
$$| . 6 3 2 . . . . . . .
$$| . . 7 . . . . . . . .
$$| . . . . . . . . . . .
$$|-------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wcm8
$$| . . . . . . . . . . .
$$| . . . , . . . . . , .
$$| . . . . . . . . . . .
$$| . . . . . . . . . . .
$$| . . . . . . . . . . .
$$| . 6 4 . . . . . . . .
$$| . 5 3 X . . . . . . .
$$| 7 2 O X . . . . . , .
$$| . O X O 8 . . . . . .
$$| . 1 X 9 0 . . . . . .
$$| . . . . . . . . . . .
$$|-------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wcm18
$$| . . . . . . . . . . .
$$| . . . , . . . . . , .
$$| . . . . . . . . . . .
$$| . . . . . . . . . . .
$$| . . . . . . . . . . .
$$| . X X 2 . . . . . . .
$$| . O O X . . . . . . .
$$| O . O X . . . . . , .
$$| . O X O X . . . . . .
$$| . O X O X . . . . . .
$$| . . 1 . . . . . . . .
$$|-------------------------[/go]

_________________
My "guide" to become stronger in Go

I would also play like SoDesuNe with regards to the connection at . However, either way feels like an incredible success for black.

_________________
We don't know who we are; we don't know where we are.
Each of us woke up one moment and here we were in the darkness.
We're nameless things with no memory; no knowledge of what went before,
No understanding of what is now, no knowledge of what will be.

It seems white 16 at d2 doesn't achieve much, just two stones. What about cutting at d6?

_________________
If you say no, Elwood and I will come here for breakfast, lunch, and dinner every day of the week.

entropi,

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wc
$$| . . . . . . . . . . .
$$| . . . , . . . . . , .
$$| . . . . . . . . . . .
$$| . . 4 . . . . . . . .
$$| . . . 3 . . . . . . .
$$| . X X 1 . . . . . . .
$$| . O O X . . . . . . .
$$| O . O X . . . . . , .
$$| . O X O X . . . . . .
$$| . O X 2 . . . . . . .
$$| . . . . . . . . . . .
$$|-------------------------[/go]

This is just as bad (if not worse) than the result in the game. White's two stones are floating without a base and they are cutting two strong, almost unattackable black groups. Point is that the capture of one stone is not only about points, but also it gives black another eye making him absolutely uber-strong.

_________________
My name is Gijs, from Utrecht, NL.

When in doubt, play the most aggressive move

True, it's very bad. But getting sealed in with only 10 points in the opening is also bad. Then there must be an earlier mistake. What is it? Maybe it all starts with the white stone at c4???

_________________
If you say no, Elwood and I will come here for breakfast, lunch, and dinner every day of the week.

Yes, entropi, I think that is white's first mistake. The next two moves look also suspect to me, but I am not sure if there even exists a better alternative at that point...

_________________
My name is Gijs, from Utrecht, NL.

When in doubt, play the most aggressive move

What about this?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wc
$$| . . . . . . . . . . .
$$| . . . , . . . . . , .
$$| . . . . . . . . . . .
$$| . . . . . . . . . . .
$$| . . 3 . . . . . . . .
$$| . X X 1 . . . . . . .
$$| . O O X . . . . . . .
$$| O . O X . . . . . , .
$$| . O X O X . . . . . .
$$| . O X 2 . . . . . . .
$$| . . . . . . . . . . .
$$|-------------------------[/go]

_________________
We don't know who we are; we don't know where we are.
Each of us woke up one moment and here we were in the darkness.
We're nameless things with no memory; no knowledge of what went before,
No understanding of what is now, no knowledge of what will be.

Well, I am an influence guy, but I think that the exchange is roughly even. (Black is ahead, but has made one more play than White.)

I think that should be a solid connection. The hanging connection leaves a possible peep for White.

Normally a wrap around wall is much better than a corner, but this is a huge corner, White has peeps, and White has sente endgame plays on both sides (hane with the threat of a ko if Black responds with atari).

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wc
$$| . . . . . . . . . . .
$$| . . . , . . . . . , .
$$| . . . . . . . . . . .
$$| . . . . . . . . . . .
$$| . . . . . . . . . . .
$$| . . . . . . . . . . .
$$| . . 2 X . 8 . . . . .
$$| . 3 O X . . . . . , .
$$| . O X O 4 . . . . . .
$$| . 1 X 5 6 . . . . . .
$$| . . 7 . . . . . . . .
$$|-------------------------[/go]

Well, I am an influence guy, but I think that the exchange is roughly even. (Black is ahead, but has made one more play than White.)

I think that should be a solid connection. The hanging connection leaves a possible peep for White.

Normally a wrap around wall is much better than a corner, but this is a huge corner, White has peeps, and White has sente endgame plays on both sides (hane with the threat of a ko if Black responds with atari).

Here are two possibilities for Black after .

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wc
$$| . . . . . . . . . . .
$$| . . . , . . . . . , .
$$| . . . . . . . . . . .
$$| . . . . . . . . . . .
$$| . . . . . . . . . . .
$$| . . . . . . . . . . .
$$| . . 2 X . 8 . . . . .
$$| . 3 O X . . . . . , .
$$| . O X O 4 . . . . . .
$$| . 1 X 5 6 . . . . . .
$$| . . 7 . . . . . . . .
$$|-------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wc
$$| . . . . . . . . . . .
$$| . . . , . . . . . , .
$$| . . . . . . . . . . .
$$| . . . . . . . . . . .
$$| . . . . . . . . . . .
$$| . 6 4 . . . . . . . .
$$| . 5 3 X . . . . . . .
$$| 7 2 O X . . . . . , .
$$| . O X O . . . . . . .
$$| . 1 X . . . . . . . .
$$| . . . . . . . . . . .
$$|-------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bcm8
$$| . . . . . . . . . . .
$$| . . . , . . . . . , .
$$| . . . . . . . . . . .
$$| . . . . . . . . . . .
$$| . . . . . . . . . . .
$$| . X X 5 . . . . . . .
$$| . O O X . . . . . . .
$$| O . O X . . . . . , .
$$| . O X O 1 . . . . . .
$$| . O X 2 3 . . . . . .
$$| . . 4 . . . . . . . .
$$|-------------------------[/go]

_________________
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.

Locally Tenuki? ^^
Later I'd prefer to approach ('a') the position threatening to pull out the stones.

_________________
My "guide" to become stronger in Go

for your question: wall is better than 22 points.
but....as others discussed before...black could have done better than the last diag.

_________________
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"
Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson

Looks like B is much better here, even considering the extra move. But the last three W moves were bad, giving up sente to capture two stones, and B promptly used that sente to perfect his outside thickness. If W omits the moves in this diagram, the result is not so clearly better for B.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wc
$$| . . . . . . . . . . .
$$| . . . , . . . . . , .
$$| . . . . . . . . . . .
$$| . . 2 . . . . . . . .
$$| . . . . . . . . . . .
$$| . X X 1 . . . . . . .
$$| . O O X . 6 . . . . .
$$| O . O X . . . . . , .
$$| . O X O X . . . . . .
$$| . O X 3 4 . . . . . .
$$| . . 5 . . . . . . . .
$$|-------------------------[/go]

If cuts, I think . New if , and then looks pretty good.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wc
$$| . . . . . . . . . . .
$$| . . . 6 . . . . . , .
$$| . . . . . . . . . . .
$$| . . 2 . 5 . . . . . .
$$| . . . . . . . . . . .
$$| . X X 1 3 . . . . . .
$$| . O O X . . . . . . .
$$| O . O X . . . . . , .
$$| . O X O X . . . . . .
$$| . O X 4 . . . . . . .
$$| . . . . . . . . . . .
$$|-------------------------[/go]

If , maybe . White is OK in the center, but White's corner is very small.

_________________
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.

Should 36 be at F7 instead?

Several people stronger than I think so.

I don't understand why. In the game, he peeped. In effect, he traded 1 for 2 as below:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wc
$$| . . . . . . . . . . .
$$| . . . , . . . . . , .
$$| . . . . . . . . . . .
$$| . . . . . 1 . . . . .
$$| . X X X X X 2 . . . .
$$| . O O O O X . . . . .
$$| O . . . O X . . . . .
$$| . O O . O X a . . , .
$$| . O . O . O X . . . .
$$| . O . O . O X . . . .
$$| . . O . O . . . . . .
$$|-------------------------[/go]

To me, that is a net loss for him. With , I have even more influence, and 'a' is easier to protect. His does almost nothing. It is so close to my overwhelmingly stronger wall that anything that it can do is neutralized. ( And, yes, in the game he did try to save it. It became part of a crane's nest while I built further influence. )

_________________
Help make L19 more organized. Make an index: https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5207

1 is playable although it is bad... but your 2 is worst move you can play against 1.
you lost the point on the peep.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wc
$$| . . . . . . . . . . .
$$| . . . , . . . . . , .
$$| . . . . . . . . . . .
$$| . . . . . 1 . . . . .
$$| . X X X X X 2 . . . .
$$| . O O O O X . . . . .
$$| O . . . O X . . . . .
$$| . O O . O X a . . , .
$$| . O . O . O X . . . .
$$| . O . O . O X . . . .
$$| . . O . O . . . . . .
$$|-------------------------[/go]

_________________
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"
Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson