Araban is right, you're already behind when it comes to pro track. Making 2d in a year, or 6d in a couple of years is perfectly possible, rewarding, and shouldn't take away from your educational goals.

If you truly want it, then you have to push like a madman.

You need someone stronger than you to beat you constantly in challenging games (at least 1 stone off your proper handicap), you need to force yourself to break through every obstacle.

Unfortunately, as it stands, this is the only way for a westerner to become pro. We just get to the game too late to really have time to test ourselves adequately to prevent the need for jumping off the cliff.

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Tactics yes, Tact no...

True, but read that in the same way you read "if you want to count the blades of grass in your front lawn, you better work really hard at it." The correct response is that you shouldn't want to count the blades of grass in your front lawn. And right now, you can definitely dream of being a pro, but it's too soon to really make a commitment.

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Occupy Babel!

If I was that much on Life19x19, it's because I was at school and I had already made 2 straight hours of go problems (especially tesujis)



When would the time be right to start really get into it? When I'm done with my objective?

It's hard to say when you're ready. It would depend on your personality--some people can thrive while plunging headfirst into things, others can't (even if they like doing it).

I shouldn't be too down on Araban's comment. When you're 18 or 19 and you don't love school and aren't thriving there, there are worse things than taking some time to pursue other interests.

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Occupy Babel!

Why only two straight hours?



I would think about something like the following:

• Ramp up your study/play/professional tutoring to the highest level consistent with it being priority #2 between now and Valentine's Day. If you've reached shodan (or some other ambitious goal) by then, proceed to the next step.
• Throughout your spring semester, devote excessive amounts of time to studying go. It is now priority #1 1/2. Begin to plan to a leave of absence, and make an arrangement to study go abroad. If force-feeding yourself problems/games/whatever during this time makes you lose faith in your goal, abort mission.
• Summer: get on the plane, don't look back.

This would be the basic form of a project like this: deadlines, specific levels of commitment, automatic escalation if the deadlines pass successfully.

(Note: please read the positive note at the end.)

There is no road paved for you. This is both good and bad. Good, because if there was an established path (as there is in Japan, Korea, China, etc.), then you would have almost certainly missed it by now. Bad, because there won't be someone holding your hand and telling you exactly what steps you must take.

To give you some context, check out Alexandre Dinerchtein's story--a Russian, and one of the handful of non-Asian pros.

You also have to consider what will be waiting for you, if you accomplish this astounding feat. I learned how to play go last year, and I'm 30. Even if I didn't have an established career that I like (and I do), the thought of doing this professionally would never have crossed my mind. At 30 years old, not only am I too old to become a pro, if I were a professional (and had studied since I was 6 years old with prodigious talent), I would be passed my prime. So consider what exactly would be waiting for you on the other side.

I know several law school classmates who had planned their entire lives to be lawyers, got accepted to one of the top schools in the country, and ended up hating it.

All that said, let's end on a positive note: While you are old in terms of becoming pro, you're still only 18. This is the time in your life to take risks and experience the world. If you go to Korea and study go for 6 months or a year, and you decide it isn't for you, I would still envy you. You'll probably have learned some Korean, learned about a new culture, and tried your best at something you loved. You have to decide for yourself of course, but it sounds like a win--even if you lose.

For what my opinion is worth, I think you should listen to honest and constructive criticism of your play from other players, especially the stronger ones, and ignore people's predictions or opinions about what you can or cannot achieve. After all, while it's possible to point out a shape mistake or misplayed semeai, it's impossible to know what talents and perseverance another may harbour.

You might be able to make pro, or perhaps not. The only way to find out is to try your very best without giving up. At least, it should be possible for you - or anybody else for that matter - to become a very strong player. All you have to do is pay the price: long hours of effortful study.

In other words, whether you have talent or not, you will still have to pay the price. It is a high price - you'll be doing tsumego while others are having parties, and playing over the games of Shusaku while your friends are playing video games. In the end, though, you will have done your best, and that is more than the large majority of people can say.

One more last thing: even if you have never experienced a plateau yet, it is almost inevitable that you will. That's when the price will seem really high. If you're willing to keep on paying out the time and effort, even when it seems you're not getting value for it, then that's the mark of unstoppable power.

I'll watch your progress with interest.

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Learn the "tea-stealing" tesuji! Cho Chikun demonstrates here:

Quoting Wikipedia

Notice that as a pro, Alexandre is not making his career from winning tournaments, but from teaching Go to western players. If you study hard and become a strong player that reaches the upper ranks of go servers, you can also make money teaching Go to western players, just not at the prices of top pros of course.

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http://tchan001.wordpress.com
A blog on Asian go books, go sightings, and interesting tidbits
Go is such a beautiful game.

As a player who has always put trophies before money, I may not have the right temperament to focus on what steps are needed to be a pro at Go. What I thought I would give is some techniques that would allow you to become much stronger but some of them may be overkill for your ambition.

- fitness: all top level players will at some point work on their endurance fitness and you should get in to this habit now.

- live competitions: it is important to familiarise yourself with the live game as well as the online game. It is also much more likely that opponents in live games are trying their best. The difference in how you view the board in different light con be surprising but while you have young eyes this isn't important.

- blindfold practice: While not every top player does this, it is very useful to strngthen the image that you have of a game in your mind. This allows you to do study positions when on the bus, etc... even without an expensive mobile phone. But mainly it is about strengthening an important game skill of positional awareness.

- Do problems with a stop watch: - this is about you improving spotting the right move quicker. Improving your shape.

- Create your own analysis.: this can start with standard tests such as how a 3-3 point invasion is affected by surrounding stones. It can sometimes be useful to record the moves via a digital camera in case you find something very interesting but didn't rememer how it started.

- Read a Go book regularly: Perhaps 1 a week


I considered turning pro in bridge when I left Uni but decided it wasn't what I wanted to achieve and have been many years without playing the game. Later I played semi-pro briefly at online poker. However, most of my recent experience comes from games you will never have heard of. This doesn't require full time study nor dedication. And some of the age limits being mentioned don't really reflect playing strength. Most players peak mentally around the age of 27 or 28 but many people can develop later in life too.

While I am unfamiliar with the Go system, it is unlikely that there won't be a route of winning competitions. For example, if the WMSG (or miraculously MSO) takes off you will have fulltime amateurs playing directly against pros.

I see that many of you suggested classes with a pro. However, I don't know much on the subject... Since there's some good and some bad teachers, could you suggest me some? Note: One that doesn't cost too much too, if possible

I went at my first go club (I go at 2 go clubs) and I'm starting to do pretty well at 3 stones against the 2 dan player. Soon we're probably gonna fall to 2 stones.

In the short term, maybe you take lessons from a pro (maybe Guo Juan?), but if you want to reach pro-level, you're going to have to study with a pro. For that, you'll need to go overseas.

Oh, that I know. I was just looking for a pro to help me with the "first step". This is why I was asking for recommendations.

Feng Yun has many strong students,I know she used to give private lessons too

Let's upgrade this journal a little bit.

Today, I found a teacher. Since I don't have lots of time to play and study, I found a 2d who was willing to teach me for free from time to time. Pretty sweet. However, I'm still looking for a teacher who would give me weekly lessons. I looked at Guo Juan and Feng Yun, but the price is outrageous (80$/hour). Alexandr Dierchtein offers the best deal so far with 40$/hour with a first lesson at 20$ as a sample. Already better, but I'm still looking.

Anybody have a good trick against headaches? With the end-semester rush in school and go studies, my head is killing me very often, making it hard to sleep sometimes.

However, I started winning as a 7k, perhaps I can expect to reach 6k soon.

Yes, pro lessons can be expensive (which, if you ever become pro, you'll learn to appreciate ). If you're having a lot of headaches for no apparent reason, go to a doctor. Check your caffeine intake.

I haven't had lessons with Alex, but he is very well-known, as is Feng Yun. Guo Juan is a very good teacher, and would be great for you in the short term (she also has connections to a program allowing you to study in China). Another option may be Mingjiu Jiang. I don't think his lessons are cheaper, but he is hard core--he will make you work. If this is your dream, I encourage you to find a way to make it work. I'm not telling you to neglect school--I went to 8 years of it myself . I just think you could serve both goals by studying a language and go abroad.

I don't think their prices are set up with individual students in mind, they tend to teach groups. Yilun Yang's lessons are quite affordable as I remember. Something like $30/hour online, don't quote me though.

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Tactics yes, Tact no...

Aiming for pro when you're only 7 kyu. That's pretty ballsy.

I started playing go about 5 months ago and my passion and progression was fairly strong, and like you, I could see myself obtaining the hand of god in the near future. I'm currently 3 kyu on KGS. Yet, though I played a ton before, for the last month or so I haven't really been feeling the urge to play and I can instead see myself obtaining the wrist of god flipping burgers at the local Burger King.

Best of luck to you. Don't put all your eggs in one basket though.

How is it outrageous? Have you looked at the cost of a good education (or private lessons) in other fields?
Piano? Engineering? Medicine? Physics? Mathematics?
Have you researched the actual total monetary cost (of tuition, living expenses, etc.) to become a Go pro in China, Japan, or Korea?
You want to become a Go Pro and you don't have much time to play and study and you want it cheap? You're wasting both your time and ours.

I meant, is isn't cheap, let's keep it to that. Please don't be so rude, btw. What I was saying is that RIGHT NOW I don't have lots of time to play because of an end-semester rush. But, once this is gonna be over, I'll have the whole winter break of some almost non-stop go. It's not that I want it cheap or not. It's just that a student's budget is a little bit more tight than the one of a working man.

As a 7k, what you need is to drill in your basic skills so well that when you really get pro instruction, they can teach you how to use your mastery of basic skills to formulate go strategies. So make use of free resources like gochild and practice those tsumegos as best you can. Make use of the many free English lectures at Wbaduk.

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http://tchan001.wordpress.com
A blog on Asian go books, go sightings, and interesting tidbits
Go is such a beautiful game.