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 Post subject: Re: Goal: 16k -> 9k in 60 days
Post #21 Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 3:49 pm 
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weekend afternoon
I think that you can do it. When I used to play actively about 3 years ago, I made similar improvement and before I knew it I was 5k. I was a pretty strong 5k too, if I do say so myself. Upon returning after that terribly long hiatus, I'm ranked at around 20.. I just have lost a lot of what used to be decent reading ability, and as such, most of my major game losing mistakes are reading related.
Best of luck to you.
P.S.
If you want to do a study group type thing on kgs, just P.M. me. (I'm lildrummer on kgs).

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 Post subject: Re: Goal: 16k -> 9k in 60 days
Post #22 Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 10:54 pm 
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Cool thanks, yeah let's play some time for sure!

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 Post subject: Re: Goal: 16k -> 9k in 60 days
Post #23 Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 11:01 pm 
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Hey guys,

Just played a very solid game vs a 11k (again I dropped the handicap from 3 to 2) as a 14k, and I won the game (again with a pretty huge mistake, I'm sure you'll see it) by about 45 points.

I'll post the game here only this time. I'd love to hear more comments about it again as I really find it invaluable information that I start using in games asap and see it making a difference.

Thanks guys! Here's the game:



Status:
DAY 1 (April 8): 16k
DAY 4 (April 11): 15k
DAY 6 (April 14): 14k
DAY 9 (April 17): 13k


Last edited by Drewch on Thu Apr 26, 2012 9:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post #24 Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:17 am 
Honinbo
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Your opponent played his 130 moves in 9.5 minutes, or just over 4 secs/move.
Think about the time and effort you spend on your moves, compared to the review.

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 Post subject: Re: Goal: 16k -> 9k in 60 days
Post #25 Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:36 am 
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Thanks EdLee, will look at your sgf shortly, much appreciated.

Also, this game was a 10 minute game with 2 20 second byos. I didn't realize that when I joined the game, or else I wouldn't have played it :(

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 Post subject: Re: Goal: 16k -> 9k in 60 days
Post #26 Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:45 am 
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Lots of basic shapes to work on.


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 Post subject: Re: Goal: 16k -> 9k in 60 days
Post #27 Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 1:57 pm 
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Thanks a lot lightvector and edlee. Very good stuff on shapes. I'll try to get a few games in this weekend and helpfully hit 11-12k :D

Thanks a ton!

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 Post subject: Re: Goal: 16k -> 9k in 60 days
Post #28 Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 9:54 am 
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Still at 13k, decided to start putting in large amounts of games for a bit instead of reading books. Still mixing in a bunch of tsuemego problems.

Here's a recent game of a lose (by 0.5), and there are moves in the end game that still could have one for for me that I missed.


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Post #29 Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 10:20 am 
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Basics: Broken (Fractured) Shapes:

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 Post subject: Re: Goal: 16k -> 9k in 60 days
Post #30 Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 9:04 pm 
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Thanks EdLee,

Going to look deeper into this game, especially that middle area where I made awful shape. I'll also try to find some reading material on shape. Do you have any good books for learning about shape? It seems to be the common mistake in my games that you have pointed out.

Thanks!

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 Post subject: Re: Goal: 16k -> 9k in 60 days
Post #31 Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 6:07 am 
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If you're looking for material on shape ...

For free is Charles Matthews' Shape Up - http://senseis.xmp.net/?ShapeUp

There is also Making Good Shape from Kiseido - http://senseis.xmp.net/?MakingGoodShape

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 Post subject: Re: Goal: 16k -> 9k in 60 days
Post #32 Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 11:15 am 
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The best way to learn shape is probably just to review your games carefully, and maybe study some tesuji, but here is some quick reading material in Sensei's Library:

http://senseis.xmp.net/?FourBasicShapes
http://senseis.xmp.net/?SixGoodAndSixBadShapes
http://senseis.xmp.net/?BasicInstinct

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 Post subject: Re: Goal: 16k -> 9k in 60 days
Post #33 Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 1:00 pm 
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Thanks Eigghead and jts. I will definitely be looking into those readings.

I also have another update, I've gotten 12k now. On day 19:)

Here is the game that got me to 12k. I think I've learned some really good things about attacking with a few lectures from some high level players.

Here is the game, I'd love a review! Thanks a lot guys! I'm over half way there now :)



Status:
DAY 1 (April 8): 16k
DAY 4 (April 11): 15k
DAY 6 (April 14): 14k
DAY 9 (April 17): 13k
DAY 19 (April 27): 12k

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 Post subject: Re: Goal: 16k -> 9k in 60 days
Post #34 Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 3:10 pm 
Oza
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Quite a good game, I think. You're doing a good job internalizing what you're learning. My thoughts are to be taken with salt, of course.

13: Excellent job noting the shape weakness. However, exploiting a broken shape isn't always a good idea if your opponent can easily sacrifice for a good position.

24: At this point I would say white has gotten a decent position, despite the broken shape. You did push W down to the 1st/2nd line and capture a stone, but you've used six stones in an inefficient shape to capture the stone, and the cde12 wall looks very efficient. Even though B21 at d12 is not "broken" shape in the classical sense, W's position is still very bad even if he cuts B.

25: With a seventh stone added to capture, B's position becomes inferior. Distinguish between stones that serve a purpose and stones that are useless. D10 does not, for example, cut two black groups apart, or cause a liberty problem for Black, or give White some useful forcing move. When a stone still serves some purpose, capturing it firmly may seem slow, but in many circumstances will be good style. When a stone is useless - especially when it is "blighted" by it's proximity to a solid enemy wall - capturing it firmly is a tiny endgame move.

39: Excellent! Don't dignify a 1st line move with a local response at this stage in the game.

41: You've violated a an important rule here... do you know what it is?

65: Again, excellent job on not following W around. I'm not a big fan of this move, though: I would prefer N4 or N5, to firmly surround the doomed white group.

67, 69, 71, 73: Another important rule has been violated. Do you know what it is?

83: A mistake everyone makes at least once. When you read, remember to count liberties... especially when groups are up against the edge. Let's hope it will only be once.

99: Not bad, but F11 (breaking W's shape) seems better: W remains on the run.

123, 125, 127: B123 and B125 are good, aggressive moves because W is in imminent danger of capture, so keeping W's liberties low is an effective way of bossing the W stones around. You should know, however, that jumping ahead is often more effective in fights likes this, since sometimes you can't win an immediate capturing race.

One final thought: you did a decent job of using more time than your opponent in this game. However, at the point when you were asking for more time you were still using about 3s to 20s per move, which is considerably less than your 30s byo-yomi periods.

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Post #35 Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 9:17 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Goal: 16k -> 9k in 60 days
Post #36 Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 9:32 pm 
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jts wrote:
Quite a good game, I think. You're doing a good job internalizing what you're learning. My thoughts are to be taken with salt, of course.


I appreciate it! Any comments are good ones to think about! Yours are good though! Thanks!
jts wrote:
13: Excellent job noting the shape weakness. However, exploiting a broken shape isn't always a good idea if your opponent can easily sacrifice for a good position.

24: At this point I would say white has gotten a decent position, despite the broken shape. You did push W down to the 1st/2nd line and capture a stone, but you've used six stones in an inefficient shape to capture the stone, and the cde12 wall looks very efficient. Even though B21 at d12 is not "broken" shape in the classical sense, W's position is still very bad even if he cuts B.


25: With a seventh stone added to capture, B's position becomes inferior. Distinguish between stones that serve a purpose and stones that are useless. D10 does not, for example, cut two black groups apart, or cause a liberty problem for Black, or give White some useful forcing move. When a stone still serves some purpose, capturing it firmly may seem slow, but in many circumstances will be good style. When a stone is useless - especially when it is "blighted" by it's proximity to a solid enemy wall - capturing it firmly is a tiny endgame move.

All good points, thanks!
jts wrote:
39: Excellent! Don't dignify a 1st line move with a local response at this stage in the game.
65: Again, excellent job on not following W around. I'm not a big fan of this move, though: I would prefer N4 or N5, to firmly surround the doomed white group.

Thanks!, yeah I agree, I should have attacked that group instead

jts wrote:
41: You've violated a an important rule here... do you know what it is?

Is it that I shouldn't be attacking by attaching?

jts wrote:
67, 69, 71, 73: Another important rule has been violated. Do you know what it is?


I think I am hitting a nail with a hammer into a weak object? lol, or directing him right into my weak group

jts wrote:
83: A mistake everyone makes at least once. When you read, remember to count liberties... especially when groups are up against the edge. Let's hope it will only be once.

Yes, bad reading =\

jts wrote:
99: Not bad, but F11 (breaking W's shape) seems better: W remains on the run.

Definitely.

jts wrote:
123, 125, 127: B123 and B125 are good, aggressive moves because W is in imminent danger of capture, so keeping W's liberties low is an effective way of bossing the W stones around. You should know, however, that jumping ahead is often more effective in fights likes this, since sometimes you can't win an immediate capturing race.

One final thought: you did a decent job of using more time than your opponent in this game. However, at the point when you were asking for more time you were still using about 3s to 20s per move, which is considerably less than your 30s byo-yomi periods.

[/quote]

Ok will think of that next time (jumping ahead). Also, yeah I guess I shouldn't have been concerned about time with 30s byoyomi

THanks jts!

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Post #37 Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 9:38 pm 
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EdLee wrote:


Thanks EdLee, very important points for me to think about and look into as usual! Much appreciated!

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 Post subject: Re: Goal: 16k -> 9k in 60 days
Post #38 Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 10:39 pm 
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On 41: Yes, exactly. Don't attack by attaching (unless you can read out a good result). Attack at a distance, by surrounding, by hemming in, by preventing a base.

On 67, etc.: Pretty much. The key mistake you made was to try to surround a group by attaching to it. But when your stones are next to his, it's pretty easy for him to outmaneuver them just by crawling out. To make nets you need to jump back. (Surrounding by jumping back is a special case of "attack at a distance".) Then, as a secondary problem, you created a "family feud", where every time you strengthen one side of your stones, you weaken the other side.

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Post #39 Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 3:17 am 
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Drewch, jts:
jts wrote:
67, 69, 71, 73: Another important rule has been violated. Do you know what it is?
jts wrote:
41: You've violated a an important rule here... do you know what it is?
Drewch wrote:
Is it that I shouldn't be attacking by attaching?
jts wrote:
On 41: Yes, exactly. Don't attack by attaching (unless you can read out a good result).
Attack at a distance, by surrounding, by hemming in, by preventing a base.
Eventually, these "rules" will become a hindrance. (Perhaps they already are. :))
Eventually (and as always), we just want to play the "best" move.
If the best move is to attach, so be it.
If the best move is to attack, but from a short distance, so be it.
If the best move is to attack, but from a medium distance, so be it.
If the best move is to attack, but from far away, so be it.
If the best move is to tenuki, so be it.
If the best move is to kill outright, kill.
If the best move is an empty triangle (or other ugly dumpling shapes), do it!
If the best move is a broken shape, do it!
And so on. :) It all depends on the EXACT board position.
Some of us (maybe adults in the Western world) pick up all "these" rules from other "teachers." :)
Then one day, we meet a good-level pro, "You have too many rules! :evil:" -- I have seen this in more than one occasion. :)
It does not matter what the "rules" say -- forget about "important rules" -- if it works, play it!
Eventually, we have to throw away all these "rules" and just play the "best" move --
but that day seems very far away. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Goal: 16k -> 9k in 60 days
Post #40 Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 10:18 am 
Oza
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Whether you want to call it a rule, or would rather dig out some fancy word like "heuristic" or "principle", I don't think Drewch will be at the point where he's ready to ignore it until he has long since lost the instinct (which lots of beginners have; which I certainly had) that you can surround a group by attaching to it.

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